Author Topic: Battery Charger (Read 11989 times)

livefats · « **on:** August 12 2013, 18:48 »

Quick question: should the battery charger continuously make a whirring noise when shore power is connected? The information system shows starter battery at 14 volts and service battery at 14.1 volts when shore power is connected; if I turn off the shore power it shows starter battery at 13.5 and service battery at 14 volts. Seems odd...

MIA · « **Reply #1 on:** August 14 2013, 03:53 »

The whirring noise that you hear will probably be the cooling fan for the rectifier, as when you switch off the voltage will drop.

Stevie

livefats · « **Reply #2 on:** August 14 2013, 08:29 »

That's great, Stevie - thank you (very reassuring!)

BTW, TS Royalist was moored next to Mia last week - quite a sight!

landes_h · « **Reply #3 on:** August 14 2013, 08:39 »

Quick question is good. I believe you have a "Quick" charger.
The noise you hear maybe the fan or the transformer inside. It's possible that the windings together with the iron core inside the transformer act like a "loudspeaker" so that you can hear the switching frequency of the charger. In any case nothing wrong with it, just might be annoying.
Regarding the voltage drop, it is normal what you observe. The charger provides a trickle charge and supplies your boat with around 14 volts. It should not be more because otherwise the battery would start gassing (bubbling) and in long term being damaged.
Once the charger is off, and after about 4 to 8 hours without any current flow you can determine the charge level versus the voltage, like:

12.65V = 100%
12.45V = 75%
12.24V = 50%
12.06V = 25%
< 11.89V = discharged

I hope I helped to confuse you more

Happy sailing
Horst

Ripster · « **Reply #4 on:** August 14 2013, 14:51 »

Quote from: landes_h on August 14 2013, 08:39

Quick question is good. I believe you have a "Quick" charger.
The noise you hear maybe the fan or the transformer inside. It's possible that the windings together with the iron core inside the transformer act like a "loudspeaker" so that you can hear the switching frequency of the charger. In any case nothing wrong with it, just might be annoying.
Regarding the voltage drop, it is normal what you observe. The charger provides a trickle charge and supplies your boat with around 14 volts. It should not be more because otherwise the battery would start gassing (bubbling) and in long term being damaged.
Once the charger is off, and after about 4 to 8 hours without any current flow you can determine the charge level versus the voltage, like:

12.65V = 100%
12.45V = 75%
12.24V = 50%
12.06V = 25%
< 11.89V = discharged

I hope I helped to confuse you more
Happy sailing
Horst

That is a useful table, thanks. Always wondered how the voltage shown on my voltmeter and the resultant drop whilst using compared to the charge level

livefats · « **Reply #5 on:** August 14 2013, 15:28 »

Thanks, Horst - that's very helpful.

Coming from full charge, after fiveor so hours of sailing with nav instruments and fridge on, the "house"/service battery warning alerts, showing 11.5 volts. I suspect it's past its best and needs replacing...

landes_h · « **Reply #6 on:** August 15 2013, 10:34 »

you're most welcome.
In your case it really looks like the "lead block" has reached it's life end. Always make sure your batteries stay above 11.9 Volts.
Below 11.5 V is deep discharge and basically the murder of it. You can even kill a brand new battery if you discharge to that level and don't recharge as soon as possible. Unfortunately you may need to get a set of new batteries.
I threw out the diode distributor on my Bav 38 and replaced it with the Alternator-to-Battery (A2B) charger from Sterling which provides pretty fast charging while running the engine. I chose the 80 Amp model which is enough with my 60 Amp alternator.

IslandAlchemy · « **Reply #7 on:** August 15 2013, 10:57 »

I've done the same as above (replace the diode splitter with a Sterling AtoB charger) and it transformed the charging for me. Well worth the money.

livefats · « **Reply #8 on:** August 15 2013, 11:28 »

That looks like good advice, Horst / Alchemy: thank you. Certainly will replace the service battery in the very near future. As to the Sterling A2B, is it just a case of pulling out the entire old smart charger and replacing it with the Sterling Unit?

Also, would it be relatively easy for a not-very-confident DIYer to do himself (you can see my lack of expertise in this direction by the number of help requests I've posted!) Or would it be a case of giving more money to the mechanics? (I'm expecting the staff of DDZ in Largs to be turning up to work driving Porsches, the amount of work we've needed doing!

Again, thanks for your help - these forums are a life-saver!

livefats · « **Reply #9 on:** August 15 2013, 13:01 »

Belay that - silly me. Of course, it's for the alternator rather than the shore power charger. Apologies.

Now need to work out the best replacement for the service battery currently Bosch Heavy DUty 140 a/h 640 036 076. Hopefully something the same size and with the same terminals so I can do an easy replacement!

MIA · « **Reply #10 on:** August 15 2013, 13:27 »

Check and see that none of the electrical components are draining the batteries through faults.

Pity I wasn't home to see the TS Royalist, thats another good thing about my berth is you get a lot of different boats coming alongside, I'll be home soon

Impavidus · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17 2016, 18:08 »

Before you write off a battery(s), or if your batteries are a couple of years old you may want to consider one of these. I have fitted one on my previous boats and batteries have lasted 8 years plus!!!!

http://sterling-power.com/products/pro-pulse-battery-de-sulphation-maintenance-device

From the web:
The Pro Pulse is designed to connect to a 12V battery bank. This unit reverse feeds a small electrical pulse back into the battery which prevents and also reverses sulphation on the battery plates.
By keeping the plates clean and free from sulphation the battery stays fresh and responsive to charging and discharging.
If you have been replacing batteries because they are not holding their charge then in most cases the battery is, in fact, in good condition except the plates are sulphated. Sulphation acts like a waterproof coating over the plates preventing the plate area effected being active and contributing to reduction in the battery cell performance. The solution is to remove this sulphation and expose the plate to the battery process again. The Pro Pulse should be fitted to any battery bank to ensure that sulphation is not only prevented but also reversed and so prolong the life and performance of the battery bank.
This device is not required if you have a Pro Digital battery charger or any other advanced Sterling charging product connected to your batteries as they have a de-sulphation cycle built into their software program.

Hope this helps.

Ant.

Craig · « **Reply #12 on:** January 17 2016, 22:53 »

If you hear the fan on the shore power charger "continuously" going and your batteries are dropping to 11.5v after a few hours sailing ( unless you have a very small house battery bank) then it is fair to assume your batteries are not holding the charge and are probably stuffed.

I agree with Impavidus above about a good solution to your problem.

Our current Varta battery bank has been operating successfully for 5 years, mainly, I believe, because we have a 340amp/hour bank and rarely let the batteries drop below 12.5v. We were full time live-a-boards during most of this time. The first bank of Banner batteries ( only 160ap/hr) only lasted 12 months as they were continually being discharged below 12.3 and sometimes below 12v.

The question I have is whether it is better to invest in a larger battery bank and keep the charge levels above 12.5 v or invest in a better charging system as mentioned by Impavidus.

Neil · « **Reply #13 on:** January 18 2016, 10:51 »

I am just about to replace my original Bosch batteries with two Varta batteries (K8 PN:640 400 080) which should give me 280Ah. Has anyone had any experience with these batteries?

Impavidus · « **Reply #14 on:** January 19 2016, 19:02 »

Neil. I have used them. No problems.

Ant.

Craig · « **Reply #15 on:** January 20 2016, 03:47 »

Neil,
As mentioned above, Varta seem to be good batteries. The big issue in determining longevity is how you cycle the batteries. If you don't allow discharge below 12.5 v you will get much longer life than discharging to 12.2 v before recharging. If you let any lead/acid battery discharge below 12 volts, they will not last at all.

Our Varta batteries are nearly 6 years old and current batteries seem to be almost brand new. ( in terms of holding charge and rebounding after sharp discharge). We used to have 3 batteries in our house bank but one failed 2 years ago. We did not replace it as we like to replace all batteries at the same time and other batteries appeared OK.

We found our current house battery size to be about the minimum I would recommend if you are living on-board. Current batteries would last about 4 days at anchor in the MED with some solar ( 120 watt panel) before having to recharge from 12.3 v. If you are a week-end sailor with occasional trips away, your battery bank would probably be OK.

Size of battery bank and quality of shore power charger seem to be the most important determinants of extending battery life.

Craig
"Shirley Valentine"
Gold Coast
Australia

CRYSTAL · « **Reply #16 on:** January 20 2016, 06:43 »

Quote from: MIA on August 15 2013, 13:27

Check and see that none of the electrical components are draining the batteries through faults.

I agree and best way is to install a victron bat monitor. Does wonders. Basically on shore power and bat bank us fully charged and still notice the there is more then few Amps current fed into the service bank while all equip is off, then you got a leak in the system or worse a bad battery internally shorting and sucking current constantly. As soon as you unplug from SP, your good battery will also drain. Check also which battery us getting warm.
Victron also shows you how much u consumed while sailing or at anchor and set an alarm.discharge your battery 12.5. The secret for long lasting lasting batteries is keeping the above 70% level and charging back to 100 as soon as possible.
Totally agree and do install A2B sterling which will also save your batteries on long trips especially ur starter battery. Well worth the money as stated above.

Size up your bank according to ur demands. We had someone here with 2 x 140Ah bats and shot them in less than 3 yrs. He thought seeing 12v was still ok ank kept on doing this for many weekend trips powering fridge freezer etc...

Less you discharge more cycles you'll have. Average batteries (non deep cycle) will be able to cycle 400 to 500times before it bocomes dead weight. Why not extend its life by 2 or 3 by NOT letting discharge below 12.5v

Baltic · « **Reply #17 on:** January 20 2016, 07:33 »

Quote from: Neil on January 18 2016, 10:51

I am just about to replace my original Bosch batteries with two Varta batteries (K8 PN:640 400 080) which should give me 280Ah. Has anyone had any experience with these batteries?

Varta
PN: 930 180 100 could be at least as good as...

http://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/leisure/professional-dual-purpose/930-180-100

Moodymike · « **Reply #18 on:** January 20 2016, 09:06 »

Make sure that the base has the same mounting lip. I think Bosch are the only ones that have this.

Yngmar · « **Reply #19 on:** January 20 2016, 16:39 »

Quote from: Baltic on January 20 2016, 07:33

Quote from: Neil on January 18 2016, 10:51
I am just about to replace my original Bosch batteries with two Varta batteries (K8 PN:640 400 080) which should give me 280Ah. Has anyone had any experience with these batteries?

Varta
PN: 930 180 100 could be at least as good as...

http://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/leisure/professional-dual-purpose/930-180-100

It's worth noting that the current VARTA is not the same as the old VARTA - the company has been dismantled and the business sectors sold to various other conglomerates (primarily Johnson Controls and Spectrum Brands/Rayovac). It is unclear whether the current batteries sold with the VARTA logo still live up to the reputation the company once had.

Salty · « **Reply #20 on:** January 20 2016, 17:27 »

Reading through the various postings above regarding battery charging and particularly charging of old and less reliable batteries, you may also be interested to read my separate posting about Carbon Monoxide alarms, and how the alarm can be triggered by the hydrogen gas given off from lead acid batteries during charging.

GeoffV · « **Reply #21 on:** January 21 2016, 11:03 »

Quote from: Impavidus on January 17 2016, 18:08

Before you write off a battery(s), or if your batteries are a couple of years old you may want to consider one of these. I have fitted one on my previous boats and batteries have lasted 8 years plus!!!!

http://sterling-power.com/products/pro-pulse-battery-de-sulphation-maintenance-device

From the web:
The Pro Pulse is designed to connect to a 12V battery bank. This unit reverse feeds a small electrical pulse back into the battery which prevents and also reverses sulphation on the battery plates.
By keeping the plates clean and free from sulphation the battery stays fresh and responsive to charging and discharging.
If you have been replacing batteries because they are not holding their charge then in most cases the battery is, in fact, in good condition except the plates are sulphated. Sulphation acts like a waterproof coating over the plates preventing the plate area effected being active and contributing to reduction in the battery cell performance. The solution is to remove this sulphation and expose the plate to the battery process again. The Pro Pulse should be fitted to any battery bank to ensure that sulphation is not only prevented but also reversed and so prolong the life and performance of the battery bank.
This device is not required if you have a Pro Digital battery charger or any other advanced Sterling charging product connected to your batteries as they have a de-sulphation cycle built into their software program.

Hope this helps.

Ant.

I used the equivalent unit -Megapulse on my last boat (x2 Varta 110aH batteries) house bank. They both lastest 10 years. However, I never let the voltage drop below 12.3v

Neil · « **Reply #22 on:** January 21 2016, 11:18 »

Just purchased 2 Varta K8s. Paid £265 with Autopoint including VAT and postage, which can be large extra with some companies to Ireland.

Got these as they are a perfect fit for the housing, with the lip. I will keep in mind the advice about not letting the voltage drop below 12.3V - a laminated note will be posted beside the readout at the chart table.

Thanks for all the top advice.