Flashing LED Light on Main Distribution panel in cabin - esw

[Bavnav]

The red LED. light is flashing on the ESW switch panel in the main cabin. I forgot to look at the number, however, it is the one with the heads and pump diagram with T1/T2. It may be telling me the waste tank needs emptying? Is this is correct and how do you discharge the tank offshore?
Also, where can you view what each switch on the panel is for ?
Fair winds,
 Bavnav

[dawntreader]

The flashing LED you describe is the header tank 'nearly full' warning. The discharge valve should be located close to and underneath the header tank. I am not familiar with the B30 layout but on my B37 this is in the heads and in the cupboard under the washbasin next to the sink discharge pipe.

The LED warning will be either real - you have closed the discharge valve and used the header tank, or false - there is a short in the wiring. If you have had your boat since 2006 and don't know where the valve is I am surprised it is only now showing 'full'?

Discharge of the header tank should be done offshore and certainly away from anywhere where the discharge could come into contact with others - swimmers, fishermen, divers etc. Consider where the tide is running too so that the effluent is not washed towards beaches  .

I always check to make sure that it has emptied - it is no fun clearing a blocked header tank 

[Bavnav]

Hi,
Thanks for the info.
We bought the B30 approx. a year ago and are still discovering. Yes, we are aware of discharging waste 3/5 miles offshore. There are 3/4 valves under the wash basin. Therefore, opening the correct valve and making the switch on the panel will automatically pump out the header tank?
Fair winds,
Bavnav.

[dawntreader]

It discharges by gravity  so the light will go out once empty (in theory).

Only put 'things' that have passed through you into the toilet bowl and you will avoid blockages - unless you have a macerator.

[MarkTheBike]

Hi all

It's not necessarily gravity! If you can find the tank (I assume in the cockpit locker), try to follow any pipes from underneath. Like ours, one of them may go to a pump (ours is a Sealand T-series). You should be able to follow the pipework through, possibly with a bit of guesswork, to find out the Tank seacock. If not then open all the big taps before starting any pumps else it may invert the duckbill valves (how do I know? Guess! Like you, the boat was new to us and I was finding out how things work). If there's a pump, it should be relatively quiet. If it goes Pop - Pop - Pop when it's running then the valves aren't working correctly so get it pumped at a pump-out station before investigating. I've recently stripped, cleaned and overhauled my whole system so I hope I've got a reasonable grasp of how they work in principle.

[Bavnav]

Thanks all.
Today, it did not flash. Perhaps, because all the valves were closed?
Regards,
Bavnav

[Ziffius]

I would call them holding tanks not header tanks. Mine quite often flash spuriously, I just took the probe out today from the holding tank to give the probe a clean. Stops the flashing unless the holding tank is nearly full

[Bavnav]

Ahh, perhaps I have the same problem.
Many thanks.
Bavnav

[Kerry1]

The flashing LED described does indeed look like the effluent tank needs emptying, but the system is not foolproof. We have frequently jettisoned our load well offshore and found the light still flashing. A couple of times this has been due unfortunately to the reality that opening the seacock to jettison did not do the job. A combination of tissue and mostly a sort of calcified buildup congregates at the bottom of the tank and over an extended period results in a blockage. This, for us was a job for a calm day well out to sea, and removing the top inspection lid and with a suitable rod, physically breaking up the crusty residue  that has fouled the outlet from the bottom of the tank. Thankfully this has only happened a couple of times over several years. Always starting an emptied tank off again with a few pumps of seawater into the tank via the heads is, I think a good idea, so that there is always a minimum of liquid sloshing around in there. Also we have had the outlet fouled partially by both mussel and oyster growth a small distance inside the skin fitting which on the B38 is not that far below water level. It can be romoved with a stout plastic rod or something stiffer if necessary but one has to be careful not to perforate or damage the inside of the hose adjoining the fitting.

Sometimes after successfully emptying- the LED still flashes. I think this is due to the sensor in the tank still having a residue on it completing the circuit and fooling us into thinking "we have a problem Houston." Usually the successful jettison makes itself known by anyone in or near the cockpit so the persistent LED can be ignored for a while. But if it stays on it is a nuisance.

Now for a cautionary tale.

We had taken my sister on her first little weekend cruise with us on our fairly recently acquired boat. It was a lovely cruise up the coast and into a rugged and sparsely populated harbour that was not accessible by road. We anchored for the evening in a secluded inlet of the harbour virtually to ourselves with magnificent rocky outcrops and bush covered hills all around us. Our inflatable tender tugged gently off the port quarter where I had tethered it up fairly short  to avoid getting it fouled while pulling back against the anchor.

Usually after setting the "pick" I lengthened the painter again so that the dinghy didn't rub against the topsides as the yacht swung at anchor.  But on this fateful occasion I forgot...

The quiet of the evening was only broken by the odd splash of mullet in the harbour and cries of some nocturnal birds. We settled in for the night. Being "that age" all of us must have paid a visit to the heads for a tinkle during the night. By the time it was my turn I noticed the LED flashing. "Oh well" I thought I know what must be done first thing in the morning as soon as we had some sea room.

I woke up in the morning to a sunny day with cumulus clouds already on the move. The promise of another great sailing day I thought in anticipation. I migrated from galley to the dew covered cockpit with my steaming mug of coffee with the prospect of taking in the sights of this beautiful place again in a fresh new day as I sipped luxuriously taking it all in.

No sooner had I seated myself when a distinctly malodorous intrusion caught my attention. I only had to look briefly over the portside to take in the situation. Our bright white inflatable had, during the night, parked itself (on its short leash) right alongside the yacht snuggled up right under the overflow for the septic tank. You can guess the rest. I, or rather we had successfully but inadvertently avoided polluting the pristine harbour by catching the overflow of urine in our tender.

My sister thought it was hilarious...

[Mark_C]

Hi Bavnav,  I have a B30 and also had the rogue LED flashing until recently.  First of all, the holding tank, sensor and inspection hatch are all accessed from the hatch to the right of the vanity mirror in the heads.   If you reach behind the tank with a torch you can see the level quite easily because it is transparent  The tank is emptied by gravity by opening the large seacock under the sink.  If the tank us full or empty you won't see the level so close the seacocks and pump the heads a few dozen times.  You will either see the level rising or if the tank is already full, water will squirt out of the vent just aft of the heads on the outside of the hull near the toerail. 

The sensor is probably faulty.  It is difficult to remove because of lack of clearance but I have had mine out for a thorough clean but it still gives a false reading.  Eventually it snapped where it has corroded trying to put it back.  I have decided it is pretty useless anyway so have just disconnected the wires to stop the LED flashing.  If it is ever likely to be full I will know, and I can always check the level with a torch.

If you find that the tank outlet is blocked (unlucky) as I did once, you can't open the circular hatch on the tank because it is full so you either have to get it pumped out first or live dangerously and pressurise the tank to blow out the obstruction.  This is what I did.  I cobbled together a seal for the vent and used the Jabsco flush to provide the pressure.  Take care because it only took a few strokes to get the whole thing creaking and popping.  I was just beginning to worry about the tank splitting  or pipes blowing off when whoosh - instant relief, as it were.

As someone mentioned, it doesn't have to be foreign objects causing the blockage, it can be scale.  What happens is that if you leave the tank empty for a while, the scale on the sides dries out and falls to the bottom in flakes that cover the outlet.  That's ones theory anyway. 

By the way if you are going to do this in a marina, make sure it is mostly water in the tank. 

[livefats]

Yes, ditto for Mark. We've had a couple of blockages, and they've cleared easily by blocking the vent-hole with tape and using the dinghy pump on the waste pump out point on deck (making a seal with a rubber glove.) A couple of strokes cleared ours quickly.

A dose or two of white vinegar in the heads followed by vegetable oil has kept ours running smoothly. As to the sensor, if faulty I'd ignore it - as Mark says, it's easy to see the level with a torch behind the tank.

[Bavnav]

Many thanks to all who aired their suggestions and help. I suspect the sensor is at fault . I have learned a great deal. Cheers.
Fair winds,
Bavnav.

[Happy Sailor]

Had similar problems with my 2005 33. Checked sensor and was working normally. Traced the problem to the distribution board and was told by Clipper that the only fix was a new board at vast cost. So permanently disconnected the warning light at the board and wired the sensor to a new fused feed from the board via a red "car dashboard warning light" from Halfords, which I set into the GRP lining of the heads next to the inspection hatch for the holding tank which makes it very visible. Works perfectly!
Can also comment on the calcification that forms within the tank as we had a major blockage due to a large piece that  settled over the outlet and had to be extracted by hand! Did a lot of research with forums and the internet generally and this is a well known problem that can also block the outlet pipe completely over a few years. There is a lot of expensive  chemical solutions on the market but I settled for the very cheap answer of a 5 litre container of "Brick Acid" from builders merchants (it must be the version that contains Hydrochloric acid) mixed in the toilet pan with an equal volume of water and pumped into the outlet pipe and holding tank until the pan is empty. If your vent is not working well then loosen the pump out cap as a lot of gas will be generated! I leave this in for 12 to 18 hours and do it every winter and have never had a problem since. I have also made up a 240 volt low wattage inspection light that can be held inside the holding tank via the circular inspection hatch and with the aid of a dental mirror (or the wife's pocket makeup mirror!) you can check that all the calcification has gone. The only problem is catching the spent fluid via a bucket and disposing environmentally without getting it on your skin!

Happy Sailor