Author Topic: AIS how?  (Read 23887 times)

solar

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AIS how?
« on: January 25 2014, 10:49 »
I want to add AIS on my 2008 38" Cruiser.
I got a Raymarine RC435i plotter and a Raymarine RAY54E VHF radio.
At the Dusseldorf boat show I was told at the Raymarine stand that my present plotter won't take&show AIS info and that I'll need to buy a newer plotter model.
Since my plotter is very common on BAV boats and works great,I would like to learn about more options to get AIS then just buying a new one...
Anyone did that? how? where?costs?
Thank you.

Symphony

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #1 on: January 25 2014, 16:53 »
If your chart plotter won't take the AIS then there are only two alternatives - a new plotter or a stand alone display such as the NASA unit. The new plotter could, if you just want it at the chart table, be a PC based charting system or a tablet. However, many people like the display at the helm, and a dedicated plotter is better for that. It really depends on your style of navigation and pilotage which is better for you.

dawntreader

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #2 on: January 26 2014, 11:39 »
Found this from Raymarine on a US forum:

"Unfortunately, it is not possible to change the software in RC435, as this product did not feature the processing power and 38400 BAUD communications circuitry required to support communications with an AIS receiver/transceiver.  The RC435/435i GPS Chartplotters were retired several years ago, and as such no further updates for this product will be forthcoming.  Should AIS/chartplotter integration be required, then it is recommended that the RC435 be replaced with an A65 Multifunction Display which has a screen size approximating that of the RC435."

solar

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #3 on: January 29 2014, 10:28 »
Thanks.
Anyone have the NASA AIS installed on board? Opinion?

Symphony

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #4 on: January 29 2014, 15:20 »
Yes. Have had both stand alone display and an AIS engine linked to a PC. Stand alone is OK, but takes a bit of time to get used to the way it is displayed and it does not link to anything else. Having AIS linked to the chart plotter greatly increases its value as shows the data in real time on your chart.

solar

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #5 on: January 29 2014, 17:38 »
Important info.Thank you.
It looks like a new plotter is on the wish list...

dawntreader

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #6 on: January 30 2014, 10:41 »
If you have ambitious sailing plans I would highly recommend getting an AIS transponder despite the higher cost. The comfort of 'seeing and being seen' are worth it!

solar

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #7 on: January 30 2014, 16:18 »
Thanks,yes. I'll do just that soon.

New plotter
AIS receiver
Splitter
New Navionics maps
Hummm...cheap hobby...
:)

singlefish

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #8 on: February 11 2014, 09:54 »
Ive just bought a Standard Horizon Gx2100 dsc radio with AIS , to link up with Standard Horizon CP300 plotter I allready have , apparantly supposed to work really well  , standard horizon service and kit very good too, including price . Found that the VHF will slide into existing face mount for Simrad RD 68 that was fitted .

once you spot a ship you can then select it and call directly ,without entering mmsi numbers etc .

solar

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #9 on: February 11 2014, 14:19 »
Thanks ,but AIS in VHF radio deep down at my nav table won't help me at the helm where it's most needed...


singlefish

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #10 on: March 03 2014, 11:44 »
dont recollect saying plotter is at chart table , however one is :) , also have one at helm which can show ais info if I wire it in too , also the remote command mike can display same information .


Pain in the @rse joining up fiddly fragile data cables , took longer than anything else . now I find main aerial not so good , but tested with emergency aerial and very impressed .

Salty

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #11 on: April 15 2014, 08:17 »
I recently purchased an iCom MA500tr AIS transponder to fit on my 2002 Bavaria 36, and have not yet completed the installation.
There are several parameters which I wish I'd thought about a bit more before buying the instrument, though the problems are not insurmountable. The first is that the instrument should not be placed within one meter of the compass. Next is that two antennae are needed, one to receive GPS position and the other to transmit your data for the benefit of other vessels around. These two aerials should not be placed within three meters of each other, and the transmitting aerial should also not be placed within three meters horizontally from any human and not within one meter vertically above their head.
On a sailing vessel this more or less rules out having the display being located anywhere where it can usefully be seen from the wheel, while the requirements for the aerials has meant buying an active aerial splitter £200 (ish) in order to be able to share the use the main VHF radio on top of the mast for the AIS transmissions. Using the mast top transmitting aerial gets over the safety issues as far as radio transmissions are concerned. As for seeing the display from the wheel, it looks like I'll have to upgrade my chart plotter to something new enough to accept the output from the icom unit.
As for where to fit the display, I've now opted to fit it inside the main cabin and recessed into a panel. The problem here is that the fittings supplied for flush mounting the unit are not able to accommodate the thickness of the plywood that Bavaria panels are made from, so the fittings are having to be modified.
I have an elderly Raymarine C70 chart plotter which is a very reliable instrument, but it will have to be changed if I want to see the AIS information from other vessels displayed near to the wheel. That will be another £600 or more plus the new SeatalkNG backbone and a few converters to allow my other Raymarine instruments to all talk to each other. I'm beginning to wish I'd kept my money in my pocket instead of splashing out on that AIS !!!

Moodymike

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #12 on: April 15 2014, 08:44 »
Quick reply for the moment.   Your C70 should be able to display AIS with the latest software.

robgs

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #13 on: April 15 2014, 20:54 »
The two antennae for AIS are a) a GPS receiving antenna, usually mushroom shaped and usually included with the AIS unit, and b) a sending VHF antenna, usually not included. The AIS module can be mounted remotely from the displaying plotter, usually below deck. Addition of AIS functionality to an existing plotter mounted near the helm should not affect or be affected by the compass. The GPS mushroomcan be mounted almost anywhere but should have clear view of satellites. Some installations user a splitter for the existing VHF antenna. These are not too expensive but sometimes don't work well. A separate VHF antenna tuned for AIS is best. This antenna should not be located right beside the radio VHF antenna-a good option is to mount the AIS antenna on the rail with the radio unit at the masthead. There shouldn't be a concern with proximity to either the plotter display or the helmsman's head. This is a problem with radar. Radar antennae should located well above people! Rail mounting of the AIS VHF antenna does not cause problems with reduced range because there is little need to see or be seen by vessels further than 15-20 miles away. Further range just adds  clutter. I strongly recommend a receive and send AIS transponder rather than receive only.

Salty

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #14 on: April 16 2014, 10:42 »
Ref Moodymike.

Thanks for the feedback, I'll check again, but so far all the information I've seen and heard had pointed against being able to have AIS information displayed on my C70 plotter.


Ref ROBGS.
I think your reply has helped to highlight the difficulties that I had not been aware of prior to purchasing the Icom MA500tr AIS transponder. For those not familiar with this unit, it has its own built in display which coupled with my own chart plotter being unable to display AIS information was the reason for buying the Icom unit.
Firstly, the separation distances I quoted were those stated within the Icom user manual. The AIS splitter I purchased is a Raymarine active splitter unit which I anticipate will work properly as designed, or it will go back to them for a refund if it does not do exactly what they say it will do.
You say that a VHF antenna tuned for AIS is best, and I have no reason to doubt that, but you then say to mount that antenna on a rail. The question here is which rail do you have in mind ??  Remember it should be at least three metres away from humans (according to Icom), so in order not to turn the majority of the cockpit area into a No Go zone for humans, where exactly did you have in mind to place that aerial???? I can understand the difficulties in perceiving the dangers from radio transmissions when most people are quite happy to use a hand held VHF radio with the transmitting aerial right next to their head, but it is very unlikely that you are using that hand held unit to transmit every thirty seconds or so. Occasionally I have young children on my boat, and I'm not planning to fry them just yet!!
As for the distance that the Icom unit should be placed away from the compass, again this is Icom's recommendation, and I can only assume that something within the unit is likely to cause compass deviation.

Salty

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #15 on: August 16 2014, 14:52 »
Just a quick update, the AIS installation was completed early in May, as described with the transponder being located within the panel above the chart desk. A Raymarine antenna splitter allows the mast head aerial to be used both for VHF transmissions and for AIS transmissions, and has worked so far with the kind of solid reliability and robustness that goes with the Raymarine name. Regarding connection to the chart plotter, I had described my plotter as a C70 when in fact it was an RL70C, different beast but still solidly reliable. Unfortunately I don't think it will ever be capable of displaying AIS information and will therefore need to be upgraded to a later model along with fitting Raymarine's SeatalkNG communication system. Apart from that and the fact that for the time being I cannot see the AIS display from the wheel it all works exactly as it should, and is very handy for checking on where your colleagues are when sailing in company. The upgrade on the display will come next winter. The GPS aerial for the AIS transponder was fitted to the starboard pushpit handrail with the lead being taken through a waterproof gland, then down through the steering flat and under the starboard quarter cabin bunk to the area below the main switch panel, then up to the enclosure above the chart desk to where the transponder is fitted.
The result is that my boat can now be seen by others fitted with AIS as can be seen from the photo below courtesy of MarineTraffic.

tiger79

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #16 on: August 16 2014, 19:26 »
The result is that my boat can now be seen by others fitted with AIS as can be seen from the photo below courtesy of MarineTraffic.

You'll be seen by other yachts, but most ships filter out Class B AIS transmissions, due to clutter caused by the proliferation of leisure AIS transponders.  If you want to be seen by ships, an active radar transponder (Sea-Me, etc) is the answer, and much better value.

Salty

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #17 on: August 18 2014, 20:49 »
The result is that my boat can now be seen by others fitted with AIS as can be seen from the photo below courtesy of MarineTraffic.

You'll be seen by other yachts, but most ships filter out Class B AIS transmissions, due to clutter caused by the proliferation of leisure AIS transponders.  If you want to be seen by ships, an active radar transponder (Sea-Me, etc) is the answer, and much better value.

Unfortunately the suggestion that Class B transmissions can be filtered out is nothing more than a frequently touted myth.
In the first place the design specifications for both Class A and Class B AIS systems are that they will work properly alongside of each other,
Secondly the Colregs state "Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision."
So filtering out information provided by an AIS system would be contrary to those regulations, and I for one would not want to be stood at a court of enquiry having to answer the inevitable question of why it was that I (if it were possible) had filtered out the signal from a vessel I had just run down resulting in the deaths of all onboard that vessel. I have attended a court of enquiry, fortunately I was employed by one of the lawyers as an expert witness, and I am very acutely aware of just how searching the courts questions were.
Thirdly as a ship surveyor during the period of introduction of AIS up until very recently when I retired, there were no such filtering systems fitted to any of the multitude of different AIS instruments on any of the last several hundreds of ships that I visited,
And fourthly if such a system had been fitted, for sure one of the questions that would have been included in the questionnaire that I carried onboard each vessel I visited would have asked whether the ships officers were aware of the system, whether they were familiar with its use, and particularly with the limitations that such systems use would have upon their ability to detect a vessel whose transmissions had been filtered out.
So I'm afraid that myth is nothing more than a myth put about by persons who are not familiar either with the systems or with the legally mandated requirements for how they should work.
Possibly part of the confusion is that on the more recent installations, the output from the receive side of the AIS instrument is required to be connected to the ship's radar display. Within the radar display there is a an anti-clutter facility to enable the user to tune the radar to minimise the returning radar signals from reflections from the waves and swell conditions. The user manuals for the radar recommend that whenever the anti clutter control is used that periodically the user should adjust the control up and down to ensure that targets are not lost in the clutter, neither is the control set so high that target returns rather than clutter are filtered out. That control however will not filter out the AIS signal from either Class A or Class B transmissions as they are not reflected radar signals, but are a received VHF radio signal that has been put into the radar set from the vessels AIS receiver, and which has been amplified in order for it to show clearly on the screen of that radar.
Lastly any system that helps other vessels to know of my presence and which helps me to know of their presence before either of us sees the other, is of benefit to us both and helps us to comply with the COLREG mentioned above.
The use as you suggest of a radar transponder will also help, but as I do not have radar on my boat yet, it would not tell me of the other vessels presence. Lastly as AIS is currently not a mandatory fitment for all vessels there will of course be some that don't have it, and for those vessels the last resort is to keep a proper lookout as described above, and keeping in mind at all times that they too might not have radar either.

tiger79

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #18 on: August 19 2014, 00:10 »
Shipping will receive all Class A and Class B transmissions, but this may well be on a small read-out display. AIS overlays on the latest radars can, I understand, suppress Class B data when required to reduce screen clutter.

Maritimo

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #19 on: October 05 2014, 02:51 »
The result is that my boat can now be seen by others fitted with AIS as can be seen from the photo below courtesy of MarineTraffic.

You'll be seen by other yachts, but most ships filter out Class B AIS transmissions, due to clutter caused by the proliferation of leisure AIS transponders.  If you want to be seen by ships, an active radar transponder (Sea-Me, etc) is the answer, and much better value.

Salty: I'm not sure where you are getting this (mis)information; I am a foreign going master and use various top-end IMO approved AIS systems, and not one that I have ever used has a filter option for such things. IMO would not allow this feature.

tiger79

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #20 on: October 05 2014, 08:11 »
The result is that my boat can now be seen by others fitted with AIS as can be seen from the photo below courtesy of MarineTraffic.

You'll be seen by other yachts, but most ships filter out Class B AIS transmissions, due to clutter caused by the proliferation of leisure AIS transponders.  If you want to be seen by ships, an active radar transponder (Sea-Me, etc) is the answer, and much better value.

Salty: I'm not sure where you are getting this (mis)information; I am a foreign going master and use various top-end IMO approved AIS systems, and not one that I have ever used has a filter option for such things. IMO would not allow this feature.

It wasn't Salty, it was me - and it's not misinformation.  Read this RYA summary if you don't believe me - http://www.rya.org.uk/cruising/Pages/AIStransmissionsfromsmallcraft.aspx

Salty

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #21 on: October 06 2014, 10:34 »
Ref Maritimo and his posting on Oct 6 2014.

I too am a qualified but recently retired Foreign Going Master Mariner, also I have extensive and very recent experience working as both OCIMF and CDI accredited ship inspector. I have to thank Tiger79 for the matter that he has raised, and I agree that there does seem to be an issue here which seems to be at odds with all that SOLAS and the IMO have strived to put in place. However, I also agree fully with the comment made in the RYA article that he referred to, in which they note that no one system will ensure that one vessel is seen by another, although the writer did come down in favour of AIS. I too would still prefer AIS rather than a radar transponder, as it does identify clearly the name and other details of each AIS equipped vessel, thereby allowing vessels to communicate with each other in order to determine what course of action they intend in order to avoid collision.
I have already raised the matter of filtering with former colleagues who continue to work for OCIMF and CDI (for the benefit of those not familiar these are the Oil Companies International Marine Forum and the Chemical Distribution Institute). My colleagues will take the matter up with those institutions in order that they decide whether ships should have a procedure in place in regard to the use of such filtering systems, and where that decision is extremely likely to result in amendments to the inspection regimes. I feel fairly sure that in consequence this matter will also be raised with IMO and SOLAS, and from there it should be passed on to vessels outside of the tanker industry.
Maritimo's comment however is also very valid as the vast majority of existing ships will not have facilities onboard which would allow filtering of AIS signals, where it appears this is a relatively recent change fitted to only the latest Radar systems. Existing ships do not normally change their radar unless they have a problem with them that is not easily resolved. So let's wait and see what happens.

dawntreader

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #22 on: October 07 2014, 08:41 »
Salty,
Thanks for your informative comments. Could you also clarify the issue that whereas ships over 300 tons (and all passanger ships regardless of size) are legally bound to carry AIS, I understand they are not legally obliged to have it switched on?

I have, over the past couple of years, had occurances where vessels not were not transmitting class A/B and therefore not visible on my plotter. These instances occurred whilst other vessels around them were 'visible' to me and further complicated my decisions on how to cross shipping lanes safely and without hindering other traffic.

Salty

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #23 on: October 10 2014, 19:56 »
Hi Dawntreader,

The following is a copy of the IMO regulation, and from it you will see that ships are required to have the system in use at all times except in situations where ship security is at risk. Unfortunately we live in troubled times, and an AIS signal for example, would be a homing signal for the likes of Pirates operating off the Horn of Africa. In such circumstances ships are permitted to turn off their AIS, but if they did, as an OCIMF or CDI ship inspector, I would expect to see a log book entry clearly stating why the system had been turned off, and in the absence of such entry the ship concerned would have an observation raised which while having no legal standing would severely hamper the vessels ability to trade. It would also be seen by Port State Control Inspectors who have the legal right to detain the ship until they are satisfied that the regulations are being followed. Such detention would also have a detrimental effect on the vessels ability to trade.
A further situation also needs to be taken into account and that is in regard to vessels carrying flammable cargoes such as oil, gas and chemical tankers where the output power of any transmitter onboard was required to be below 1 watt (it might be 2 watts now), or it was to be switched off during all cargo operations. Those operations usually take place in port, but not always as ships often transfer cargo during a ship to ship transfer at some offshore location. Such operations happen very frequently. Most AIS class A transmitters that I am aware of transmit at 2 watts or more and would in the circumstances be switched off in order to prevent the possibility of incendive sparking. (Not a great thing to happen in places where flammable liquids and gasses are present).
Passenger and other ships periodically need to load fuel and gas oil (diesel fuel), and would be required to observe the same restrictions during the loading as tankers. People make mistakes and occasionally they might forget to switch on their AIS after such operation. That's not an excuse for not switching it on, just a reason.
Sometimes also the text message contained in regard to the vessels destination may not have been updated, such that occasionally you will see, for example, a ship where the text message says it is travelling towards a specific port, but where it's heading is clearly away from that port, and not just marking time while waiting for the tide or a pilot. So while not right, the information needs to be read with care and things like the actual direction of travel being taken into consideration.

The text of the IMO reg follows, I hope this helps:-


Radio Communications and Search and Rescue

Home » Our Work » Maritime Safety » Navigation » Automatic Identification Systems (AIS)
AIS transponders
Automatic identification systems (AISs) are designed to be capable of providing information about the ship to other ships and to coastal authorities automatically.

Regulations for carriage of AIS
Regulation 19 of SOLAS Chapter V - Carriage requirements for shipborne navigational systems and equipment - sets out navigational equipment to be carried on board ships, according to ship type. In 2000, IMO adopted a new requirement (as part of a revised new chapter V) for all ships to carry automatic identification systems (AISs) capable of providing information about the ship to other ships and to coastal authorities automatically.

The regulation requires AIS to be fitted aboard all ships of 300 gross tonnage and upwards engaged on international voyages, cargo ships of 500 gross tonnage and upwards not engaged on international voyages and all passenger ships irrespective of size. The requirement became effective for all ships by 31 December 2004.

Ships fitted with AIS shall maintain AIS in operation at all times except where international agreements, rules or standards provide for the protection of navigational information.

A flag State may exempt ships from carrying AISs when ships will be taken permanently out of service within two years after the implementation date. Performance standards for AIS were adopted in 1998.

The regulation requires that AIS shall:

provide information - including the ship's identity, type, position, course, speed, navigational status and other safety-related information - automatically to appropriately equipped shore stations, other ships and aircraft;
receive automatically such information from similarly fitted ships; · monitor and track ships;
exchange data with shore-based facilities.
The regulation applies to ships built on or after 1 July 2002 and to ships engaged on international voyages constructed before 1 July 2002, according to the following timetable:

passenger ships, not later than 1 July 2003;
tankers, not later than the first survey for safety equipment on or after 1 July 2003;
ships, other than passenger ships and tankers, of 50,000 gross tonnage and upwards, not later than 1 July 2004.
An amendment adopted by the Diplomatic Conference on Maritime Security in December 2002 states that, additionally, ships of 300 gross tonnage and upwards but less than 50,000 gross tonnage, are required to fit AIS not later than the first safety equipment survey after 1 July 2004 or by 31 December 2004, whichever occurs earlier. (The original regulation adopted in 2000 exempted these vessels.)

 

Maritime security - AIS ship data
At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee (MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector.

The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.

In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port industries.

 

Further information
Resolution A.917(22) Guidelines for the onboard operational use of shipborne automatic identification systems (AIS) - available from your national maritime Administration or purchase Assembly resolutions from IMO Publications.

Resolution MSC.74(69) includes Recommendation on Performance Standards for Universal Automatic Identification System (AIS) available from your national maritime Administration

Related Documents
   SN/Circ.227 Guidelines for the installation of a Shipborne Automatic Identification System (AIS) (197 KB)
    
Related Links
 
IMO Publications

So you will also see that this regulation does not allow for filtering of AIS a signals and hence the stances from my earlier posting as well as that from Maritimo, as filtering would clearly be contrary to the requirement of the regulation.

dawntreader

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Re: AIS how?
« Reply #24 on: October 10 2014, 20:15 »
Salty,
Thanks again for the extensive information on AIS. I have attached a screen copy taken from Raymarine's manual on the AIS500 (published in 2008) - this is where I saw the comment that there was no mandate to use AIS on 'larger commercial' vessels. ???
Regards,
Jim