Traveler Replacement

[Jake]

Hello,

Has anyone replaced their original Rutgerson traveler?  I'm tired of having to muscle my old one around.  I am planning on using a Harken system.  Since the traveler is only attached on the ends, how many fasteners are holding it on and how do they attach?  I looked inside and can only see the inner fiberglass liner under the traveler.  I expected it to be thru-bolted.  Is the traveler bolted into a captive aluminum plate like the winches?  I'd like to know because it make a difference on which Harken track that I select.  Obviously it needs to be the high load track because it spans the companionway.  Does anyone have any experiences that they could relate?

Thanks,

Jake
2004 Bav 44

[Jussi]

Hi,

When you remove the end pieces, there are two M8 (or M6, I can't remember) screws below that on both ends. Bavarian way is that there is metal plate, most likely aluminum, laminated into the roof and there are threads where the screws are bolted into.

And since it is quite old boat and you have aluminum and stainless steel, the screws are most likely corroded quite tightly. Mine didn't come cleanly off and I had to use quite wide arsenal of tools to get job done.

Good luck with that.

Jussi

[Jeffatoms]

This thread is very timely; thank you!  We are currently traveling home from four weeks on tge hard in the yard. Our visit was mostly a bottom paint job but also to determine and repair prop cavitation issue. 

All is well and onto the task of replacing traveller and blocks and windlass.  We have slowly been replacing Rutgerson with Garhauer and we have been pleased.  Garhauer Wil design and build a custom assembly as they did last year for a boat neighbor preparing for a Pacific Ocean passage on his Westsail 32.  Price was right, support and performance were excellent.

[elias]

For the record , during a delivery from the factory of a brand new 2022 boat( I m not sharing the brand but it wasn’t bavaria ) , friends of mine after a jibe on 20knots of wind , had their traveller dismantled. It was screwed directly on the grp without backing plates …

[Laysula]

My traveller on my 350, which has a soft headlining, is bolted through the fibreglass with nuts and backing plates on the inside.

[Jake]

After putting up with a very difficult to move traveler, I have undertaken its replacement.  I removed the traveler yesterday from my Bav 44.  Four 10mm machine screws hold it onto the cabin top.  They thread into an aluminum or stainless plate embedded in the fiberglass.  There is no access to the underside (after removing the headliner to check).  I suspect the embedded plate is stainless, as there was no corrosion on the stainless fasteners.  One of the screws was very stubborn.  It creaked when I tried to remove it and wouldn't budge.  Fearing that I would snap it off, I brought in my air compressor and an impact gun.  It made quick work of the stubborn screw without doing any damage.

I will be calling Garhauer next week to spec out a new traveler.  I haven't decided on whether to go with a 4:1 or 6:1 adjustment.  The main is quite large and I think more leverage would be better.

Jake

2004 Bav 44
Windedown

[Ailatan]

Hi Jake,
Are you thinking in ordering a new traveler same size as the original or longer?

[kavok]

To better use main travel, I directed travel ropes towards the bloks  behind mast, then  backward to  stopper near copckit other stopper and use winch to move upwind.

[Jake]

Ailatan,

I plan to have Garhauer build the replacement traveler to the same length as the original.  The mounting pad for the traveler is nice and flat.  The cabin top past the ends of the traveler is not flat, with a slight curvature.  The traveler length isn't really an issue, especially with mid-boom sheeting.  When the boom is past the end of the traveler the sheet and vang can be used to adjust twist in the sail.

Jake
Bav 44

[Ailatan]

Hi Jake,
I think that the main traveler of our boats is so small that doesn't even makes sense to play with it, so I was thinking that if I change the traveler I will go for a longer one and then put some risers or feet on the ends of the traveler to join the traveler with the top of the cabin.
Garhauer also sell those risers: https://www.garhauermarine.com/shop/travelers/traveler-risers/standard-universal-traveler-riser-ur-1/

[Jake]

Ailatan,

I was talking with Garhauer this week.  When I told them the traveler was only 39 inches long, they were a bit surprised.  They also pointed out that their traveler car, which is close to 6" long really limits the available travel on such a short track. 

I am now contemplating replacing the traveler with a longer one.  I measured today and should have room for a 5 foot long track.  I will mock it up tomorrow to measure how tall the risers will need to be.  My rough measurement showed that they would need to be 6 inches tall to clear the companionway cover where the original track was located.  I'll also pull the interior covering to make sure I have good access to through bolt the risers. 

What was once a remove and replace task has now turned into something slightly more complicated, but much more usable and effective for controlling the main.  I really like the ability to drop the traveler in high winds to control the heel of the boat.  It's much easier and faster than letting out the main sheet.

Jake

[SYJetzt]

I think fitting that huge traveller dimensions are a little oversized for the kind of mainsails fitted on our Bavarias.
I also had the problem with friction of the traveller car and needed a lot of power to move it.

I replaced all moving gear (car and blocks at end of track) with new original rutgerson parts, which are running now far better than the old ones, which had a lot of wear and tear, especially on on the running pillar in the car.

I'm thinking about redirecting the traveller lines like Kavok mentioned in this thread. 

[Ailatan]

I've sailed in a boat with a longer main traveler and I really liked the way you can de-power the mainsail.

That is why I was thinking to change the original for a longer one. Playing with the sheet and the vang is an option but I was taught to use the vang as little as possible, specially when beating to windward.

Fixing the traveler to the cabin is one problem and the second one is how to move the traveler car. I have a couple of ideas but I would first ask the people of Garahuer.

I like your sentence "What was once a remove and replace task has now turned into something slightly more complicated". Think positively, at least you could unscrew the bolts of the traveler without problem. I wasn't that lucky when I tried to remove the bolts of my clutches.

Please, keep me updated, I am very interested how you solve this issue.

[Jake]

It's been quite a while since I've posted anything on my traveler replacement.  I contacted Garhauer and they have been very helpful.  I ordered a new MT-2 traveler and a set of risers this week.  The risers are needed because I am going with a longer track.  The new track is 50" long and will allow me more adjustment.  The risers should attach just outside of the lines running to the cockpit.  I will need to drill some holes into the headliner to attach the inside hardware, but it will be hidden by the interior panels.  The parts should be arriving in a few weeks, all custom made for my boat.  I wanted a longer traveler track, but the interior ribs and structure of the aft head would get in the way.  I wanted everything hidden and that's how it should turn out.  BTW, the maximum unsupported length for the Garhauer traveler track is 60", so 50" shouldn't flex much at all.

More to come once the parts arrive.

Jake

[Jake]

Well,  I finally finished the traveler upgrade.  Garhauer supplied their MT-2 risers and MT-2 car/track.  They customized the height of the risers so it would clear the companionway hood.  I'm very happy with the upgrade.  The car moves easily.  It also has a 5:1 purchase which is an upgrade from stock.  I should have no trouble moving this in high winds.

I wish I could have made the track longer, but the headliner would have complicated things more than I would have liked.  As it is, I did have to cut two access holes in the headliner to install the backing plates.  All the hardware is first class and polished to a mirror finish.  Garhauer is a first class outfit.

Jake
Bav 44 (2004)

[Ailatan]

Hi Jake, no doubt that the result is really good. Do you have pictures from the inside to see how did you fit the backing plates?

[Jake]

Ailatan,

After assembling the track and risers, I placed it on the deck in the exact position I needed.  It is centered directly over where the old track was.  I did want it to interfere with my dodger or the stowage of the life raft.

I marked all of the holes.  Twelve are needed, six on each side.  I drilled the first hole all the way through the deck and the fiberglass headliner.  I used that hole as a reference to cut the access holes in the headliner.  The supplied stainless steel backing plate was then used to draw out the area to be removed from the headliner.  I just traced around the backing plate and cut it out with a 4" angle grinder.  The hole should be slightly larger than the backing plate.  An extra few millimeters won't matter, as the fabric headliner will cover all of this up anyway.

After drill the first hole through the deck, I placed one of the fasteners in the backing plate and put it on the deck to align the remaining holes.  It worked almost perfectly.  I say almost, because I had to slightly enlarge one hole that wasn't drilled perfectly vertical.  After each hole was drilled, I added a fastener.  That way I had a dry-fit trail so I knew everything would fit well.

Please note, the deck is cored.  I removed the core from the inside of each hole using a bent nail in a drill.  I then filled each hole with West epoxy.  That seals the remaining core and leaves a solid glass plug around each hole.  This makes sure you don't crush the core when tightening the fasteners.

I didn't take any pictures from the inside, but I will do so in the coming weeks.  Not much to see, but I'll do it.  Feel free to ask any questions.   I hope to get out sailing soon and try it out.  The car moves easily now.  Such a joy.

Jake

[Jake]

Ailatan,

Here are a couple of shots that show the backing plates inside the cabin.  I used a 4" angle grinder to open up the fiberglass liner (after first removing the fabric headliner).

I could have made the holes slightly larger.  They're hidden anyway.  I used a shop vac held very close to the grinder when I cut out the holes.  It sucked up all of the dust and kept the cabin clean.  It was challenging to hold both tools and still make a nice cut.  I had removed all of the cushions and put up a plastic curtain, just in case.  Once fiberglass gets into fabric, it's almost impossible to get out and then everything is scratchy when you sit on it.

Let  me know if you have any more questions.

Jake

[Ailatan]

Hi Jake,
Thanks for the pictures. Now I can understand your explanation. I have the same boat but I never had removed those panels of headliner and I thought that they were as the panels under the clutches, where you can access directly to the bolts.
Also I see that if you were had ordered a longer traveler you would have finished inside the head.