Author Topic: Bavaria 46 (2005) Steering System (Read 4533 times)

ROBBCN · « **on:** February 17 2022, 15:29 »

Hi,

I have just purchased a Bavaria 46 from 2005. She has basically been sat out of the water for the last 15 years, and is undergoing a compete facelift. However, it looks like the rudder was damaged and a new one has been made.

The problem is that the steering system is no longer there, and I am pulling may hair out trying to find out what would have been fitted originally. I need to install a new system, but I also want to get an autopilot. The RayMarine dealer has asked my what type of steering system I have, but there isn't one.

I have found pieces from the original system from Lewmar, and the local mechanic keeps talking to me about a Lewmar Mamba system. However, all I want it a good old fashioned chain and wire setup, so I can install a Raymarine drive until with tiler arm connected to a quadrant on the rudder stock.

I have attached some pictures.

You will see pictures looking up towards one of the helms, with the chain in place and going around a sprocket on the back of the wheel, another picture of a sprocket behind the bottom sprocket of that chain and look towards the stern, the rudder stock, and an old Lewmar Tiller lever.

Any ideas or pics of what the setup might have been so I can just redo it.

Thanks!

Yngmar · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17 2022, 16:37 »

Looks like you bought a bit of a boat puzzle!

1st picture, you seem to have a Whitlock (now Lewmar) Constellation (not Mamba - see illustration below) steering, with the wheel driving a chain which drives an axle with a sprocket lower. On that sprocket could go a chain-to-wire steering (Lewmar part) that leads aft to the rudder area.

2nd Picture it seems your boat is entirely missing the upper rudder bearing and any mountings for it. By the epoxy repairs around the area, perhaps it was ripped out in a collision? Below there should also be a rudder tube or flexible gaiter to keep the water from coming up the lower bearing. Both of these need to be installed - see Jefa.com for parts.

On our 40 Ocean, the setup looks like below image. It's quite possible that yours was different, as our centre cockpit has in-conduit cable steering from an axle under the binnacle in the engine room, but at least you get an idea of a possible solution, which I think would also work with open wire steering. The steering cables attach to the aluminium bracket with the turning blocks. This looks like it may have been in place on your boat, as there are screws in the same place on the step astern of the rudder post. From that, a keyed quadrant is attached to the rudder post. Didn't see a quadrant in your parts collection though.

In your parts collection you seem to have a Lewmar tiller arm and key, which may have been part of the steering, or part of an autopilot driving the rudder post via this arm. There's also some broken parts that look like the remnants of a rudder position sensor, indicating that an autopilot was fitted, so this is likely. There's also some more chain that must fit to the free sprocket, although as it's a loop, it might just be a spare steering wheel chain instead.

Hard to tell more than this from the photos without knowing the exact place everything is in, but it looks like it would be possible to fit wire steering relatively easily. The rudder needs a top bearing first though. Perhaps someone with your exact model of boat can shed further light on what was originally there.

Yngmar · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17 2022, 16:40 »

Found another picture with more details of the wire & quadrant steering setup:

kavok · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17 2022, 20:10 »

You have two wells system? Right?
Lewmar ( ex Whitelock) produced custom parts for Bavaria steering system.
You need to see all the system of a boat like yours , take image, and then ask to lewmar GB the parts you need.

ROBBCN · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18 2022, 08:26 »

Hello,

Yes, I think that the rudder was damaged in some kind of collision, so a new rudder has been made. The rudder is just in situ at the moment, and none of the bearings have been put there yet!

I can't find a quadrant anywhere, but there must have been one.

Thanks!

Rob

IslandAlchemy · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18 2022, 09:45 »

Looks like you have the same system as I do on my 49. Unfortunately I couldn't tell you what model it is.

You basically have two chains dropping from the wheels down to hubs lower down. You then have two chains connecting these lower hubs to the central hub/motor.

This is then attached to another big casting which sits behind the motor (I assume is the clutch/gearbox), which then drives the rudder post via a solid link.

I'll try and find some photos for you.

The drive motor looks like this one:- https://www.helmstock.com/autopilot-drive-mamba-12v.html

There is then a gearbox-type casting attached to the back of it, to turn the horizontal rotation into vertical rotation, which has a solid bar going to the rudder fitting.

wolfand · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18 2022, 15:57 »

Hello ROBBCN, I've a 42Cruiser 2005 and I believe it should be same system of your 46. What IslandAlchemy wrote is same situation in my boat. If can be helpful for better understanding I attach an extract of owner's manual and picture of my rubber shaft assembly. I've Mamba system as well

kavok · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18 2022, 20:30 »

Only wolfand answer is right.
Other image are not relevant.

IslandAlchemy · « **Reply #8 on:** February 19 2022, 10:39 »

Quote from: wolfand on February 18 2022, 15:57

Hello ROBBCN, I've a 42Cruiser 2005 and I believe it should be same system of your 46. What IslandAlchemy wrote is same situation in my boat. If can be helpful for better understanding I attach an extract of owner's manual and picture of my rubber shaft assembly. I've Mamba system as well

Yes, that's exactly what I have.

paulemeier1 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 19 2022, 12:24 »

wolfand is right i think. I think I have the same steering system on my 37CR 2006. Will attach a picture you can see the ruder shaft and a little of steering arm. better to see is my one construction of autopilot with handmade tiller arm. ruders position control and Raymarine Linear drive. The podest its minted on is made oh plywood an Grp? or how is it name in english?

IslandAlchemy · « **Reply #10 on:** February 19 2022, 16:17 »

Quote from: paulemeier1 on February 19 2022, 12:24

wolfand is right i think. I think I have the same steering system on my 37CR 2006. Will attach a picture you can see the ruder shaft and a little of steering arm. better to see is my one construction of autopilot with handmade tiller arm. ruders position control and Raymarine Linear drive. The podest its minted on is made oh plywood an Grp? or how is it name in english?

That is a linear drive. A different beast from what the OP should have.

paulemeier1 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 19 2022, 16:34 »

but working since 10 years without fault. I have heard from several issues by the lewmar engine or the clutch of it
and he only ask for an auto pilot i think. But maybe is a fault of my pure english sorry

kavok · « **Reply #12 on:** February 19 2022, 21:18 »

The 42, 46, 44, 40 Cruiser twin weels, have an intregrate rotative Lewmar Mamba motor that is bolted to other Lewmar parts as the bevelheads and reduction gearbox.
First of all ROBBCN must replace these parts and others minor parts. But where. are upper bearing and upper bearing housing?

After having rebuilt manual system to move the rudder , could relpace autopilot motor.
Now Jefa built modern motor suitable to mamba bevelheds that I think are better than old Lewmar motor.
But I think he need also new autopilot computer and other new instruments.

.

SYJetzt · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21 2022, 09:15 »

I have the same boat (same vintage) like ROBBCN. See attached photo, taken from the starboard side to center.
Also a photo from a sticker on the central unit (gearbox).

SYJetzt · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21 2022, 09:16 »

sorry, one photo missing

Yngmar · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21 2022, 10:39 »

Quote from: SYJetzt on February 21 2022, 09:16

sorry, one photo missing

So it's almost this Lewmar contraption, which unites the twin helm steering and autopilot drive in one bevel gearbox: https://www.yachtshop.eu/en/product/6931002/Autopilot%20drive%20Mamba%2012V

But with a different motor (probably due to the space) and what looks like a custom bevelhead that I can't find in the Lewmar parts catalogue.

Given the prices and non-standard parts, I would be tempted to opt for a more traditional solution, but it looks like the space is very constrained so that might be difficult.

SYJetzt · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21 2022, 13:55 »

The present AP- motor has Lewmar Nr. 89300053 and is a 1/4HP 12V Standard Mamba drive. See photo

SYJetzt · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21 2022, 14:23 »

If the bevel gearbox is present (which i haven't seen on ROBBCN's photos), all necessary parts should be present, maybe some minor parts missing. So it should be possible to solve the puzzle. As the replacement motor for the mamba by jefa (DU-TS8-12) is approx 2500€ and same price as the raymarine linear drive, there is no need to fit a linear drive with an additional arm and a new pedestal.

Mirror45184 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 24 2022, 11:53 »

From the original photos ROBBCN posted it would seem that most of the parts are there. See the attached I have indicated the steering quadrant which bolts to the rudder shaft. The very bent shiny piece toward the top of the photo is the original link arm. The impact must have been very severe indeed to have bent the link rod as it has. The second photo is how it should look. I would guess that when the original rudder was destroyed the bevel gearbox etc was also destroyed.
Cheers

SYJetzt · « **Reply #19 on:** February 24 2022, 14:48 »

If the original bevel box isn't present anymore, i would check if Lewmar can provide the neccesary parts and additionally ask Jefa for a custom solution. I would assume all the stuff will cost a fortune, but compared my original lewmar steering with the jefa steering in newer Bavarias the Jefa one is so much better (less play, less friction, more direct) that i would prefer the Jefa (if feasible).

Alphadug · « **Reply #20 on:** March 12 2022, 19:22 »

This isn't a reply to this particular issue. I was hoping someone could point me to pictures or a schematic of the lower (the part that goes through the hull) assembly for a 2015 Vision 42. I'm getting mixed answers from the local mechanics about whether it's a bushing or a bearing. Thanks all for a wonderful resource.

Doug

symphony2 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 12 2022, 19:34 »

Here it is from Jefa. Deep rudder version if yours is shallow draft the layout is the same but the rudder shorter.

https://jefa.com/ftp/old_boat_spare_parts/Bavaria/Bavaria42V_E42_SD20_deep_rudder_2014-/

Alphadug · « **Reply #22 on:** March 12 2022, 21:31 »

Perfect, thanks Symphony 2!

Doug

kavok · « **Reply #23 on:** March 13 2022, 14:59 »

Robbcn, no any news?

jannickz · « **Reply #24 on:** February 19 2024, 02:47 »

While piecing together parts might work, understanding the original system would be ideal. Contacting Bavaria directly or searching their online resources for historical models and specifications might offer clues. About the bearings, you can check online stores like ebay, tbs bearings to get the quality bearings