Author Topic: Rudder Bearings Siezed Removed & Renewed 2021 part 2 (Read 25200 times)

Gardan · « **Reply #25 on:** July 12 2021, 19:51 »

Good news and bad news , with Yngmar’s words ringing in my ears ‘it has to come out, deal with the damage later !
Ha ha well overall I’m pleased but there is some collateral damage to deal with tomorrow !!!

Gardan · « **Reply #26 on:** July 12 2021, 19:58 »

Very Good news and some bad news , with yngmar’s words ringing in my ears . ‘It has to come out , deal with the damage later ‘

Well we got the rudder out at least !

Gardan · « **Reply #27 on:** July 12 2021, 20:09 »

Top bearing - notice the inner sleeve of this old bearing . Not like the new Jeffa model at all really

Gardan · « **Reply #28 on:** July 12 2021, 20:20 »

Collateral damage to the Top bearing housing caused by the drilling from underneath in the letter box to try and split the bearing to release the grip it had on the shaft of the rudder ....sorry yngmar as much as we tried to heed you advice it was near impossible to not damage the bearing housing . I’d describe this as ‘Top Hat ‘ which the bearing sits inside this . I’ll get a price to replace this tomorrow off Jeffa hopefully.

Gardan · « **Reply #29 on:** July 12 2021, 20:22 »

The bottom bearing came out easily

Gardan · « **Reply #30 on:** July 12 2021, 20:26 »

The new bottom bearing going in the letter box

Gardan · « **Reply #31 on:** July 12 2021, 20:33 »

The ‘top hat ‘ the top bearing housing unit , that we will have to replace as we damaged the inside of it with drilling to release the top seized bearing, update on the cost of this later

Gardan · « **Reply #32 on:** July 12 2021, 20:40 »

The new bottom bearing in place

Gardan · « **Reply #33 on:** July 12 2021, 20:41 »

New Bottom bearing pic two

tiger79 · « **Reply #34 on:** July 12 2021, 20:43 »

Quote from: Gardan on July 12 2021, 19:43

Hi Tiger we are hammering the top where the emergency tiller fits so no , however we can wiggle the rudder from underneath as we bash it .

As Yngmar said in reply 15, don't apply force to the rudder. Even with the emergency tiller fitted, can't you still hammer the top of the stock?

Gardan · « **Reply #35 on:** July 12 2021, 20:54 »

Hi Tiger , I may be mistaken , but I think Yngmar was quite rightly warning me not to apply force like the video in post 13 where the guys where using planks to leverage the rudder down , but as yngmar pointed out it was a motor boat . I am in debt to Yngmar for this advice .

We was in fact hitting this top of rudder shaft with large lump hammer , we never did use the sledge hammer and went for the drilling from underneath, she moved on the first blow after we did the drilling . Shame we damaged the housing , but I’m glad she’s out now .

Gardan · « **Reply #36 on:** July 12 2021, 20:59 »

Word of warning :
I can’t help wondering if the main reason the top bearing was so badly seized was due to me putting in 3 in 1 oil and wd40 into the top bearing ( as Yngmar mentioned after I had done it , was a mistake ) The bottom bearing which is inaccessible so I couldn’t oil up , came out easily . I suppose I’ll never know entirely as the bearing was siezed when we first inspected it we could clearly see that it was not moving around the shaft , and why we put the oil in , ha ha made sense at the time .
But a lesson learnt for sure , again thanks to Yngmar .

Gardan · « **Reply #37 on:** July 13 2021, 16:29 »

Changed title of thread and removed the ‘sledge hammer’ which was in the original title

tiger79 · « **Reply #38 on:** July 13 2021, 17:38 »

Quote from: Gardan on July 12 2021, 19:43

Hi Tiger we are hammering the top where the emergency tiller fits so no , however we can wiggle the rudder from underneath as we bash it .

You could fit the emergency tiller and then bash that.

Gardan · « **Reply #39 on:** July 13 2021, 17:51 »

Yes suppose so , once we drilled the bearing a few smacks with good size lump hammer with a block of wood rested on top of the shaft and it slid out , I’m just waiting on a price from Jeffa for the top hat bearing housing that I damaged with the drilling from underneath. I really could not see any other way to get the rudder to move a mm without the drilling . Also I would say because of the limited Angle you can get the long 4 & then 6mm drill bit in there was not much chance to not damage the housing. I was trying to be carful but you almost need to slice a gap like wedge out the apple shaped bearing to give it room to collapse within its self . It was proper seized . Holding all that weight and hammer blows could not budge it . The cost of the housing is going to be interesting, I’ll post this tomorrow and when I get to the end of the job I’ll post the total cost in parts and the Labour which was reduced substantially as I did a lot of the donkey work . Still probably around the £1,000 mark I’d say when the £250 lift out cost thrown in. Or perhaps more when I get this housing price tomorrow

elias · « **Reply #40 on:** July 13 2021, 18:16 »

After this thread , I believe annual lowering of the rudder can save more time that it spends …

Gardan · « **Reply #41 on:** July 13 2021, 18:39 »

Hmmm maybe , however these bearings i suspect have been in the boat since new so 22yrs old and the jeffa bearings look like better design to me. I doubt I'll be touching these bearings for at least 5 years (jeffa recommend 3yrs ) , but will give the bolts a wiggle and some grease every three years perhaps.
A huge amount of time (two men) of time was getting the 4 bolts out of the auto pilot ( they will go back in with silcone grease ) and the 4 bolts holding the steering , just a little maintenance on these 8 bolts would be time very well invested imo , an hour every 3/4 yrs perhaps ? if these bolts undone and the rudder bearing not seiezed , it could definitely be done and dusted in a day with two people IMO
Then perhaps and i don't know , but if steering started to get stiff perhaps lift it out sharpish before the bearing siezed , In my research also it said make sure you rinse down the bearings with fresh water when lifting out the boat as when the salt dry's that's not so good .

jeffa recommend every three years maintenance here is a link https://youtu.be/xF9OXOCrE5c

releasing the bolts working in the back was proper hard work , i'll be greasing mine in future

Gardan · « **Reply #42 on:** July 13 2021, 19:01 »

Quote from: elias on July 13 2021, 18:16

After this thread , I believe annual lowering of the rudder can save more time that it spends …

Whilst on the topic of maintenance please take a look at this pic and notice the 'pitting' around the bottom of the boat around the lower rudder bearing housing , that's not just chipped paint they are small tiny pitted holes , I'm going to treat these and seal with decent paint (not sure what yet) but going to give it a good few coats after filling the small pit holes .

Gardan · « **Reply #43 on:** July 13 2021, 19:05 »

close up of the same area notice small holes forming

i have it on good advice that a product called 'Belzona' its really rock solid for filling aluminium and steel holes and easy to work with . Its on order !

I will be giving this area special attention every times the boat is lifted out the water. I dont want any problems around the bearing housing

tiger79 · « **Reply #44 on:** July 13 2021, 20:29 »

Quote from: Gardan on July 13 2021, 19:01

Whilst on the topic of maintenance please take a look at this pic and notice the 'pitting' around the bottom of the boat around the lower rudder bearing housing , that's not just chipped paint they are small tiny pitted holes , I'm going to treat these and seal with decent paint (not sure what yet) but going to give it a good few coats after filling the small pit holes .

It may be electrolytic corrosion caused by having copper-based antifoul on the aluminium housing. Jefa recommend using something like Trilux for 75-100mm around the rudder stock area.

symphony2 · « **Reply #45 on:** July 13 2021, 21:59 »

Quote from: Gardan on July 13 2021, 19:01

Quote from: elias on July 13 2021, 18:16
After this thread , I believe annual lowering of the rudder can save more time that it spends …

Whilst on the topic of maintenance please take a look at this pic and notice the 'pitting' around the bottom of the boat around the lower rudder bearing housing , that's not just chipped paint they are small tiny pitted holes , I'm going to treat these and seal with decent paint (not sure what yet) but going to give it a good few coats after filling the small pit holes .

Maybe go back to my first post where I linked to the video of the bearing replacement on a 36 like yours. I observed at the time that it was wrong to try and add an anode - the pitting is caused by electrolysis and I advised following the Jefa recommendation of using a non copper AF such as Trilux for a ring 100mm round the housing, and on top of the rudder where the alloy shaft goes into the rudder - unless like some it has a Delrin washer there. Suggest you also check the inside of the bearing housing for pitting. The cause of seizing in the video was corrosion in the housing from electrolysis that resulted in the bearing seizing in the housing and around the shaft. Use an aluminium filled epoxy - various brands available, just google - to fill the pits in your photo then prime and Trilux.

Yngmar · « **Reply #46 on:** July 14 2021, 09:50 »

Quote from: Gardan on July 13 2021, 19:01

Whilst on the topic of maintenance please take a look at this pic and notice the 'pitting' around the bottom of the boat around the lower rudder bearing housing , that's not just chipped paint they are small tiny pitted holes , I'm going to treat these and seal with decent paint (not sure what yet) but going to give it a good few coats after filling the small pit holes .

I had some pitting on the lower housing too, perhaps caused by bad alloying of the material itself. I cleaned them up with a small grinding head on a die grinder and then filled with epoxy filler (International Watertite, because I had some left from another job). Then painted aluminium etch primer and Velox Plus propeller antifouling over it, which gets refreshed whenever we haul out. No issues since.

Our Jefa roller bearings have been doing well in the last 5 years and the overhauled steering is precise and goes easy (can turn wheel with one finger). Only problem was a little leak from the bolts of the upper bearing housing. Undid those last winter and applied some fresh Butyl around the heads which hopefully sorts that.

symphony2 · « **Reply #47 on:** July 14 2021, 10:40 »

Velox would be good to use around the bearing housing as it would not need regular recoating like Trilux. Worth investing in a tin of primer and topcoat as it would cover the saildrive and Prop as well.

Gardan · « **Reply #48 on:** July 14 2021, 12:32 »

Hi SYm-Yngmar & Tiger
I have just been informed by Jeffa that they don't do a replacement top hat bearing housing (the one i damaged drilling) , so I've contacted SVB to see what they have , bit disappointed as Jeffa are super quick getting parts over next day to Uk . Thinking weeks now but we'll see. I'm now wondering if take it to my friends car body shop could they repair it with the Belzona alloy filler ? to get me sailing this summer ,Then perhaps fit the new top hat next time I take her out the water .
I think i will invest in the primer and top coat of Velox , good shout , thanks

Gardan · « **Reply #49 on:** July 14 2021, 12:43 »

top hat damage