Author Topic: Bavaria 30 - Single/short-handed tips  (Read 2799 times)

catlotion

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Bavaria 30 - Single/short-handed tips
« on: September 30 2020, 10:01 »
I've recently acquired a Bav 30 Cruiser and I'm really happy with it.   However, my confidence managing the boat either single handed or with non-sailing guests is a bit low.

My main issue is dealing with the boat in gusty conditions (common on Windermere).   I find it difficult to manage heel and things can feel a bit out of control.   If I'm on the wheel it's impossible to get to the mainsheet to ease so I'm relying on others.  If a guest is on the wheel it's not too bad as I can ease sheets more easily and furl genoa a bit if necessary. 

Any tips?  I'm currently finding myself reefing main all the time in anticipation of increasing winds.  The other difference with my previous boat (Beneteau) is that the Bav doesn't have a mainsheet traveller and centering the boom seems very difficult as it just seems to pull it down.

Moving on I'd like to be able to handle the boat confidently on my own.  I did think about adaptations for cleating/releasing mainsheet from the helm, but not sure that's really practical...


sy_Anniina

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Re: Bavaria 30 - Single/short-handed tips
« Reply #1 on: September 30 2020, 10:28 »
A good autopilot is often better helmsman than average crewmember - especially when comparing to a tired crew on longer journey.

Having autopilot steering leaves you to do all the trimming you need. Practice-practice-practice starting in benign conditions and gradually extending to more windy / gusty conditions. Regarding mainsheet next to wheel - I once routed the mainsheet from coachroof - through pulley stropped in cockpit jackline - to spinnaker winch next to wheel. If you have a free winch you could try this as well. However, this was just a one-time experiment and although it went quite well I have continued to use autopilot and "normal" sheeting arrangement also when single / shorthanded.

My B40 (2001) has a traveller and I have thought modern bavarias without traveller would have two separate mainsheets, one on each side of companionway - enabling boom centering and controlling the twist in mainsail.

BR,

Tommi
s/y Anniina


Symphony

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Re: Bavaria 30 - Single/short-handed tips
« Reply #2 on: September 30 2020, 21:08 »
This is a perennial problem - see a related discussion here bavariayacht.org/forum/index.php?topic=1346.0 The simplest change is a I suggested, that is take the tail of the mainsheet back to the helm along the coaming and add a cleat to the side of the coaming. You will have to re-arrange the run of the mainsheet so that is uses the outside organiser sheave and clutch.

Looks like you have the standard bridle mainsheet rather than the optional traveller, although this is not hugely helpful as it is short and like the main impossible to adjust from the helm. A double mainsheet system as fitted to some later boats is one solution to taking the control back to the helm, but it is expensive and not easy to retrofit, and in reality if it is the type that Bavaria use not easy to control the shape of the sail.

The problem of rounding up in gusts can be reduced by not oversheeting the main in winds of 10 knots and above. You may also find that your main, if it is the original is now baggy and the draft has moved aft. It may be worth asking a sailmaker to recut by taking some cloth out of the luff to move the draft forward and also flattening the sail. Alternatively a flattening reef might be useful as that will reduce the sail area and flatten the sail at the same time - effectively a sort of half reef. I have a furling main and I find a couple of furls useful in blustery conditions just to depower the main.

Hope this helps.

sunshine

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Re: Bavaria 30 - Single/short-handed tips
« Reply #3 on: October 01 2020, 09:07 »
Firstly, as you gain experience of your boat, you will find that this becomes less of an issue so do persevere. There's a few things you can do - getting plenty of outhaul tension on will flatten the bottom half of the mainsail and reduce healing quite a bit. Also give the adjustable backstay a good tug will reduce belly in the headsail and reduce heel from that.

But there's nothing wrong with setting sail according to gust strength, so 8 gusting 16 would warrant at least one reef when setting out. You'll be a bit slower between gusts but not much - these boats are easily driven.

The other thing you can do on the helm is steer the gusts - pinch up into the wind when a gust hits, then bear away when it passes.

Having said all that, what is the concern that gusts are causing? The boat will heel (although not as much as you think - if you buy a stick on inclinometer you'll be surprised how little it is) but will pop back up when the gust passes. You will get desensitized /used to it to it, and some of your non-sailing chums will just think its normal. Which it is.

Lyra

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Re: Bavaria 30 - Single/short-handed tips
« Reply #4 on: October 01 2020, 09:12 »
I would also recommend an autopilot. For a 30 feet boat, and for the occasional use (i.e - not requiring long hours of course keeping during passage) the simpler wheel mounted type will suffice.
It simply lets you leave the wheel and move freely in the cockpit to do whatever you want. It also has an automatic tack so  you can manage the sheets during the tack.

Not exactly for the specific issues you asked, there is a nice book regarding single/short handed boat handling - "stress free sailing" by Duncan Wells. One nice thing about this book is that in addition to the photos in the book it includes links to videos of many of the procedures described.
S/Y Lyra
B36 / 2004

JEN-et-ROSS

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Re: Bavaria 30 - Single/short-handed tips
« Reply #5 on: October 01 2020, 09:24 »
"A good autopilot is often better helmsman than average crewmember - especially when comparing to a tired crew on longer journey"
I agree with sy_anniina.
 My wife and I sail our B38 this way most of the time (we are in our mid 60's) but by choice she tends to look after the domestic arrangements and since I've worked on boats nearly all of my life I get us from 'A to B', so I am largely single handed and after many decades this arrangement works for us.
The only issue is power, so over the years the yacht has sprouted first a wind charger (Rutland) and later 200w worth of solar panels on the gantry.
But prior to that, running the engine and motorsailing for 30 mins every few hours also worked.
So the simplest solution, 'though possibly not the cheapest, is a good autopilot.....Bill

sunshine

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Re: Bavaria 30 - Single/short-handed tips
« Reply #6 on: October 01 2020, 18:36 »
I've never sailed on Windermere but i believe its about 8Nm long end to end. I'm not sure autopilot is necessarily the answer in this particular case. I think its all about getting a balanced sail trim - with quite a bit of practice you can get a 30 to be neutral on the helm, and can let the wheel go entirely (not that I'm advocating this!) and she'll just keep going in a straight line even with the gusts. No weather helm and no rounding up, just a bit more lean and a bit more speed.  With practice, you can get it like this with a reef in - its just a matter of getting the right number of rolls in the genoa to match the reduced size of the reefed main so that balance is maintained.

The lack of a traveller is a bit if a pain - you need to use the kicker on all points of sail to get the desired sail shape/twist, and use the mainsheet as you would the traveller. On the upside, the genoa car pulleys make adjusting twist in the headsail easy from the cockpit.  Buy a load of sail tell-tales and stick them in the belly of the main and it'll help reduce heel once you get them all flying.

One other thing is about crew. I think you mentioned you sail with your (non-sailing) wife. Get her interested and involved in the sail trimming side of things. Plonk her on the starboard side of the cockpit and tell her if she gets uncomfortable to let that rope out a bit, and then pull it back in again when things are a bit more upright. Working as a team makes it more fun.

catlotion

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Re: Bavaria 30 - Single/short-handed tips
« Reply #7 on: October 02 2020, 14:18 »
thanks for all the great tips everyone!   yes, I think part of it is just getting confident and used to the boat.   

I'm not sure I can justify an autopilot really.   Windermere is 10.5 miles long but kind of divided into a north and south lake so you generally sail one or the other. 

I might look into the cleating arrangement for the mainsheet.   Traveller retro-fit sounds a bit pricey though.

I'm interested in kicker, back-stay and outhaul tightness.   How tight should I have these?   'Bar' tight for outhaul?   Tight as you can pull for back-stay and variable for kicker depending on point of sail?     

I have to say (being a relatively novice sailor) I'm not very well informed on the use of kickers, despite doing some reading online - lots of conflicting opinions it seems!

Also, with a reef in, presumably the reefing line needs to be as tight as the outhaul would be if un-reefed?



sunshine

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Re: Bavaria 30 - Single/short-handed tips
« Reply #8 on: October 03 2020, 12:13 »
A lot of instruction on using kickers/vangs assumes you have a traveller. In that case, when close hauled you use the mainsheet to control twist by pulling the boom down, and control mainsheet angle using the traveller.  The kicker is only used when further off the wind. Unfortunately this doesn't apply to our boats without a traveller - and I've never seen a very good write up of how to trim the mainsail for us.

What I tend to do is raise the mainsail pointing into the wind. Make sure the topping lift is off then winch the mainsheet to pull the boom down enough to get the desired amount of twist. Aim slightly off the wind so the sail takes shape. If you have the standard half battened sail then aim to have the top batten pointing a few degrees further out than the boom.  This will probably be with the boom roughly horizontal. Now that you have the desired twist, pull the kicker through by hand to take the slack out of it, then lock it off. You have now locked-in the sail twist and can release the mainsheet to adjust the sheeting angle as desired without altering the twist. Once under way you can use more kicker to reduce twist or let some out to increase twist. It took me ages to get my head around what twist actually is since its quite hard to see the sail shape from behind the wheel. If you get someone else to helm, then go up and stand in front of the mast and look at the sail you get a much better picture of the shape and what the kicker does to change it.

For outhaul, there's a black line on the back of the boom. With the outhaul pulled back, the slider will be at the line and the foot of the sail will go straight along the boom with no belly. If you progressively let outhaul out a few inches at a time (there's a 2:1 tackle system inside the boom), you will see the foot of the sail belly out. Again, you can see this better standing at the mast.  The more belly, the more power but also more drag and heel. You can buy a sticker from selden for the boom that shows how far forward of the black line you have the outhaul for reference.

In general, with very light winds, you want belly for power, but as soon as the wind gets up, you want to flatten out the sail to reduce heel so pull on the outhaul back to the black line (but not beyond or you'll stretch the sail) and flatten out the bottom half of the sail This gives you quite a lot of control before resorting to reefing, but as the wind gets up you will have to reef.

For the reefs, the outhauls work the same way to control belly, but since its windy enough for a reef you probably want a flat sail so yes, get it on reasonably tight - but you must let the kicker off a bit and go through the process of setting twist again after the reef us in.

Generally speaking, in very light winds you want sails that are full of shape for max power so lots of belly. As the wind picks up you want flat sails for less power and less heel, then smaller flat sails via reefing.

It took me years to get comfortable with understanding the impact of kicker and outhaul on the bav30, and it also takes a couple of trips at the start of each season to re-remember! I found the yellow rya book "sail trim for cruisers" quite good. But definitely stick tell tales all over your sails and look at the mainsail from the mast to see how complex the shape of it us.

Same goes for headsail and mucking about with genoa car position - you get a great view from inside the front cabin looking up out of the hatch.

Since Windermere is long and narrow with high hills either side, is it the case that the wind us either on the nose or directly behind, and you are either close hauled or running?

catlotion

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Re: Bavaria 30 - Single/short-handed tips
« Reply #9 on: October 03 2020, 16:17 »
Cheers. What a comprehensive reply! 

I'll have to try all that next time I'm out.  Unfortunately it's been chucking it down all day so I've been upside down in cockpit locker finishing off my heater install.

Wind seems to come from all over the place and spins right round you quite often in varying degrees of force... :-\. Keeps things interesting though.