Author Topic: Which sail should I buy  (Read 2426 times)

Bav32

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Which sail should I buy
« on: May 29 2020, 14:47 »
I was thinking about buying new sails for next year, but due to some other "moneyeaters" I can just afford one sail for my 2004 32 Cruiser.

My furling genoa is in reasonable shape and is bought in 2008 and my furling mainsail is in somewhat similar state but it's original.

I just feel like the mainsail is sitting there doing nothing and letting the genoa do all the work. But then again, will I get a better mainsail even if I would go and buy a new one?

Why can't I be rich and buy both? :)

Keweetoo

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Re: Which sail should I buy
« Reply #1 on: May 29 2020, 20:59 »
If your mainsail dates from 2004 then there is every likelihood it will be a bit 'baggy' and difficult to get a good shape. I had exactly this scenario and the sail was awkward to furl away easily due to the 'sag' ending up with folds as it furled and then difficulty unfurling. Eventually we bit the bullet and bought a new main and its a wonder. You get used to the saggy sail which wont keep a good shape but a new sail makes a big difference and much easier to furl/unfurl. We eventually bought locally to Plymouth from Ullman Sails and went for a good spec marblehead dacron

IslandAlchemy

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Re: Which sail should I buy
« Reply #2 on: May 29 2020, 21:36 »
You are right in that it's all about the genoa on your boat.  A new main will make no difference to performance, but a new genoa will for sure.

Symphony

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Re: Which sail should I buy
« Reply #3 on: May 30 2020, 11:09 »
There has been a lot of development in furling mainsails in recent years in areas such as retaining shape and increasing leech area and stability so suggest you speak to sailmakers about what they can do for you. It is true that your boat is foresail biased, but the mainsail does make a significant contribution. The original was a very low quality sail so anything new will be better, and even more so if you go up the quality scale in both design and fabric.

Lazy Pelican

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Re: Which sail should I buy
« Reply #4 on: May 30 2020, 16:04 »
I’m in a similar position with our B39 2006. Sails are original. We have original Elvetrom Fully Battened Main with sailcar system, and standard Elvestrom Furling Genoa and can only justify replacing one sail.
My inclination is to replace the Genoa- is this the correct call and what spec should I be looking at?
Keep in mind we’re based in Greece and only cruise!

Thanks,
John.

Symphony

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Re: Which sail should I buy
« Reply #5 on: May 30 2020, 19:33 »
Depends in a way why you think you need new sails - or rather what is wrong with your current sails other than age. Genoas tend to lose performance because they stretch and fail to set well because they are baggy or have flapping leeches. This is caused by fabric aging and accentuated by use in heavy weather when the sail is reefed. Boats like yours with large overlapping genoas need reefing early, so typically spend more time sailing with rolls in the sail. Once the sail gets baggy it is difficult to get it flat enough for stronger winds and pointing suffers. Mainsails generally have an easier life, particularly fully battened as they hold their shape better as they age.

So, in a sense it depends on how you sail and what you hope to achieve for your hard earned money. I would guess where you currently sail you experience strongish winds (compared with, say, the Ionian). A sail that performs well in a wider range of winds up to 20+knots without reefing might be of benefit. This would lead to getting a smaller, say 115% genoa and sacrificing a bit of light air performance. You don't say if you have any offwind sails, but a trend now is to have a smaller genoa and rely on a cruising chute type sail for offwind up to say 15 knots where you would currently use a full genoa.. This is one route, but really you need to speak to 2 or 3 sailmakers, describe what you want the sail for and get recommendations. Don't be surprised if they disagree because that is the nature of a competitive market where there is a range of products that might suit!

For cloth, that is the major differentiator in price and there are essentially 3 levels of woven cloth plus laminates. Woven Dacron is the cheapest, but within that category there is a range of qualities and a range of manufacturers, but generally the more you pay the better the cloth in terms of stability and life. The next level up is Vectron type pioneered by Hood which incorporates vectran yarn for stability. The final type is Hydranet which incorporates Dyneema yarns and is commonly used for  radial cut sails. Laminates are a whole new territory with many different types, mainly for racing, but spreading into cruising as they find ways of making them more durable and user friendly.

Which you choose, of course depends on such factors as your budget and how long you are going to keep the boat. Even the basic level sails such as you can buy on line from Far East lofts will be better than your current sails (which even though basic have still lasted well) and may suit if actual sailing performance is not a top priority. Paying more gets you hopefully a sail tailored to your needs that will last longer.

Bav32

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Re: Which sail should I buy
« Reply #6 on: May 30 2020, 20:31 »
Great answers guys. I guess I have to go see a couple of sailmakers.

Just out of curiosity, what sailmakers are there in the far east and what is the pricerange compared to Europe?

I'll probably hold on to my boat for the next 5-10 years, so i assume I should buy proper sails at some point

Lazy Pelican

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Re: Which sail should I buy
« Reply #7 on: May 30 2020, 20:49 »
Thanks Symphony, lots of good info.
We’re based in Leros, Eastern Aegean. We have a cruising chute for light downwind sailing though rarely use it. There’s either to much or not enough wind. We’ve owned our boat since 2009 and she’s never gone upwind well - you may ask why would we want to go upwind - sometimes there’s have little choice.
A friend with a B36 and new properly cut sails runs rings around us. Having that performance isn’t a priority, but flexibility is.

John.

Symphony

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Re: Which sail should I buy
« Reply #8 on: May 31 2020, 10:11 »
Sounds like time for a new genoa at least.

Symphony

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Re: Which sail should I buy
« Reply #9 on: May 31 2020, 10:25 »
Great answers guys. I guess I have to go see a couple of sailmakers.

Just out of curiosity, what sailmakers are there in the far east and what is the pricerange compared to Europe?

I'll probably hold on to my boat for the next 5-10 years, so i assume I should buy proper sails at some point

Probably the best known is www.fareastsails.com who are based in Hong Kong but sails are actually made in China. They will deal direct on line. Rolly Tasker, an Australian company also has a big loft in China and has local salespeople in many countries. Many other sailmakers also have sails made in the Far East, although they also have lofts in Europe. They tend, like Elvestrom who make Bavaria OE sails to have the basic volume types of sails made in places like Sri Lanka and the Phillipines, but the more upmarket and custom sails made in Europe.

We are lucky in the UK in having many sailmakers who make to order, including measuring your boat, discussing exactly what you want and making the sail in their own loft. These tend to be a bit more expensive than far east made sails, but in my experience you end up with a better product because of the interactive process rather than just filling in a form on line.

Bav32

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Re: Which sail should I buy
« Reply #10 on: May 31 2020, 13:13 »
Great answers guys. I guess I have to go see a couple of sailmakers.

Just out of curiosity, what sailmakers are there in the far east and what is the pricerange compared to Europe?

I'll probably hold on to my boat for the next 5-10 years, so i assume I should buy proper sails at some point

Probably the best known is www.fareastsails.com who are based in Hong Kong but sails are actually made in China. They will deal direct on line. Rolly Tasker, an Australian company also has a big loft in China and has local salespeople in many countries. Many other sailmakers also have sails made in the Far East, although they also have lofts in Europe. They tend, like Elvestrom who make Bavaria OE sails to have the basic volume types of sails made in places like Sri Lanka and the Phillipines, but the more upmarket and custom sails made in Europe.

We are lucky in the UK in having many sailmakers who make to order, including measuring your boat, discussing exactly what you want and making the sail in their own loft. These tend to be a bit more expensive than far east made sails, but in my experience you end up with a better product because of the interactive process rather than just filling in a form on line.

I once fixed a sail from Rolly Tasker at my local sailmaker. He gave me a 15 minute lecture about the differences between Chineese and local saild. I understood that the price difference was not that big in the end, but the service and maintaining of local sails was easier and less expensive.

Symphony

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Re: Which sail should I buy
« Reply #11 on: May 31 2020, 16:40 »
There is a lot to be said for that. You can buy direct from the far east and potentially save significant amounts, but you then need to take care of direct payment and maybe paying duty, clearance etc with the downside that if it is not OK back up may be poor. The second way is buying through an agent, who may also be a sailmaker in which case he must make a margin, but you then have a local point of service and your contract is with him rather than the factory. The third way, which you probably might not discover directly is buying from a firm like Elvestrom or North (and no doubt others) who have overseas factories that they own.

The key factor is labour which is the biggest single cost apart from material, and the cheaper the basic material the greater the proportion of labour in the total manufacturing cost. So basic sails show the biggest potential savings. Not a lot different from many other manufactured consumer products.

Fortunately for us in the UK the market is relatively large and mostly for replacement rather than OE so supports a very active local supply base. Where I live in Poole there are 4 very active sailmakers and further 30 miles away around the Solent there are at least 10 others.