Panel 303 Question

[captpatrick211]

Good day everyone - my good friend in the marina ran into this problem recently but with a different panel.  We have a 303 panel and I need to replace the rcbo fc3203 and the B16s.  Contacted a UK marina supply and they said they are no longer being made but they should be easy to find on the internet or with a good marine electrician.  I need these from a european source (we're in the US) and with all the Bavarias out there I know there must be someone who now supplies them.  No one in the states has a clue - they all want to build new stuff for me.  Any ideas?

[JJackson18b]

This might be what you’re looking for https://proelektro.eu/en/items/cRUMwMDA5MDU_?manufacturer=cQUJM

Cheers

JJ

[captpatrick211]

Thanks JJ - appears close but all of them are listed as unavailable.  My understanding was that ABL Sursum either went out of business or stopped making them altogether.  The search continues!

[Yngmar]

This is a generic RCBO, the brand doesn't matter at all. In fact, you should probably buy a 120V one if you're cruising in 120V regions. These are available on Amazon US, see this thread, in which I've posted a link to one: http://bavariayacht.org/forum/index.php/topic,2720.msg17708.html

[captpatrick211]

Thanks Yngmar - going to order this today!

[captpatrick211]

Not good news, the breaker that referenced in the link is 78mm tall. And my electrician says I need a breaker that is 90mm tall. I'm sure someone has faced this since the manufacturer of this original part went out of business.  Too many Bavarias out there.  Or maybe I'm still missing something.  Thanks for any thoughts!

[SorinCT]

Check the mounting space and adapt to the standard sizes found now. Mounting should be on a back rail (DIN standard) with 35mm width.
Although not very efficient and safe, mine was fitted directly behind the panel.
Don't get caught up on specific brands, try to find some variants that are in spec and have the fastest reaction time.

[Yngmar]

Not good news, the breaker that referenced in the link is 78mm tall. And my electrician says I need a breaker that is 90mm tall. I'm sure someone has faced this since the manufacturer of this original part went out of business.  Too many Bavarias out there.  Or maybe I'm still missing something.  Thanks for any thoughts!

It sounds like your electrician is out of his depth, just like the one in that other thread. Perhaps European electric installations confuse them - I can understand, some US ones confuse me too!

So, let's unconfuse! Only a few dimensions matter here. The part of the RCBO that sticks through the panel must be no taller than the panel cutout. This is luckily standardized and not a problem. It must also be no wider than the old one - this is also standardized, to units, so should be fine too. And the slot on the rear that clips onto the DIN rail is also standardized and matches. So far so good, I expect.

Now the total height (78 vs 90mm) of the RCBO that your electrician complains about does not matter. This is hidden behind the panel and it's not unusual for units to have different heights because of this (see example below). It would matter in some cases of larger installations where bus bars are inserted, but that's not the case here. I suggest you take a look at the problem yourself or have him show you the exact problem - and I think you will find there isn't one.

[captpatrick211]

Yngmar - I feel like you're becoming my personal electrician and if I ever get over that way, dinner is on me!   So here's how this is playing out.  I had a marine electrician look at this and it appears that on my panel (see attached) I have to meet the specific size (90mm) to make connection to both contacts top and bottom - unless I can come up with some type of adapter, which he doesn't recommend. These are DIN rail breakers that are not mounted on a DIN rail, rather they use the wire contacts integral to the breaker to attach to the top and bottom contacts of the circuit boards that were specifically built for this application. 

Really hoping someone out there has this issue and resolved it.  I wonder if it's unique to a 2007 Bavaria 40 Vision?  Wouldn't these panels be identical?

[Yngmar]

Thanks for the dinner offer Aha! That photo is enlightening, now I see the issue. This is really not how these things are intended to be installed at all and I have no idea what the hell Würth Elektronik was thinking when they designed this for Bavaria. We don't have that weird PCB sandwich (ours is an older panel), just a short piece of DIN rail mounted on the back of the panel with spacers. I guess this is what happens if you let a PCB design company do the job - they design a PCB even where it's the totally wrong approach

Do you have a shot of the PCB? I assume it has posts soldered in directly where the RCBO and breakers clamp onto?

If so, you need to either find an RCBO with the exact same physical dimensions, which is near impossible, as not just the height must match, but also the spacing between the contacts in two dimensions, else you risk breaking the posts off the PCB. And not all RCBOs have the L/N contacts in the same order either.

Or you can use the shorter RCBO you already have and replace the posts with wires (of 32A rating). This will involve some soldering, but make future replacements much easier. There might just be enough space in there to get away with that (78mm vs 90mm leaves you with 6mm gap on either side - just enough to fit a wire in).

[Mirror45184]

The other option is to replace the three circuit breakers with equivalent units from the same series as the RCDO. Good luck, just love it when manufactureres update their equipment!
Cheers

[captpatrick211]

Thanks to both of you......  I like the wire approach that Yngmar recommended.  back to the electrician!

[Bertie1972]

Good day everyone - my good friend in the marina ran into this problem recently but with a different panel.  We have a 303 panel and I need to replace the rcbo fc3203 and the B16s.  Contacted a UK marina supply and they said they are no longer being made but they should be easy to find on the internet or with a good marine electrician.  I need these from a european source (we're in the US) and with all the Bavarias out there I know there must be someone who now supplies them.  No one in the states has a clue - they all want to build new stuff for me.  Any ideas?

Hi
I had a similar problem a year or so back (I've attempted to include a pic of mine - it looks the same as yours).   I had the same issue with requiring the same dimensions due the terminal connections. 
I found the ABL C3203 was the same as a GARO GR C16A 1+N and bought one.  It looks so similar I suspect it uses the same molding.

Having said that, the trip button has just failed and I've ordered another here https://www.meteorelectrical.com/distribution-control/consumer-units-accessories-1/garo-rcbo-1-n-16a-char-c-6ka-type-a.html

Edit: D'oh - just realised I was looking at your pic not mine when I quoted the number and they are different.  Anyhow might be worth a look at the ones Metoer have to see if the RCBO body for your spec matches, as our boats are the same year.

[dgmultimedia]

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/mcbs/1893188?cm_mmc=UK-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-CSS_UK_EN_Automation_%26_Control_Gear_Whoop-_-MCBs_Whoop-_-1893188&matchtype=&pla-306759814688&gclid=CjwKCAjw_qb3BRAVEiwAvwq6VqPTdNmIaGBS1ZwegIS_Q5-OYwCa4l4H1dUjge1G1M4OLlSVLUFxcRoCTqoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

https://docs.rs-online.com/06a2/0900766b8170df6e.pdf.
these are 90mm spec and size is on the PDF....

supplier is RS components....
( they are Siemens )
whole range including the RCD...