Cruising chute stemhead fitting

[MagicalArmchair]

We have a wizard, brand new Kemp cruising chute, however, no stem head fitting to fly it from.





We won't be using it that much, with three kiddies on board, so I probably want to avoid a bowsprit affair if I can - what do others do? A loop of wire attached here perhaps? Is the anchor roller man enough to fly it from at the top of the below? Or will that just crash about?

[sy_Anniina]

If you are sometimes mooring bow-to, you may consider a fixed "bow platform" as an additional benefit. It makes boarding somewhat easier, especially now that I have a folding telescopic ladder mounted underneath the platform.

[IslandAlchemy]

I attach my tack block to the keyhole in the back end of the bow fitting.

[MagicalArmchair]

I attach my tack block to the keyhole in the back end of the bow fitting.

Is that this guy?



Do you just shackle the block right on there?

Thanks for the platform suggestion - I like the idea of that, however, that'll be a 2021 job

[Symphony]

The tack needs to be well forward of the forestay. Suggest you look at modifying the bow step and its support to fit a U bolt. I have done this, but it means cutting the strut from the crossbar and reforming the top of it so it provides a saddle under the bar through which the legs of the U bolt go. The strut is in two parts, one sliding in the other and will need welding up when it is set at the correct height.

As a temporary measure, though you can use a dyneema strop around the bow roller to take your tack block.

[IslandAlchemy]

I attach my tack block to the keyhole in the back end of the bow fitting.

Is that this guy?



Do you just shackle the block right on there?

Thanks for the platform suggestion - I like the idea of that, however, that'll be a 2021 job

Yes, there. Stick a shackle through it.  It doesn't need to be in front of the forestay, but you will need to snuff it when you want to gybe.

[Symphony]

That is the downside of using that mounting point and one of the reasons why it is better to attach the tack forward of the forestay, which also gets the chute in cleaner air. Well worth considering investing in a furler for ease of handling with a lighter crew. The handling gear is quite expensive but does encourage more frequent use of an already expensive sail!

[Salty]

We have a wizard, brand new Kemp cruising chute, however, no stem head fitting to fly it from.
We won't be using it that much, with three kiddies on board, so I probably want to avoid a bowsprit affair if I can - what do others do? A loop of wire attached here perhaps? Is the anchor roller man enough to fly it from at the top of the below? Or will that just crash about?

Have you considered using an ATN Tacker ?
If you are not familiar with what they are, type in ATN Tacker into your search engine and watch the video. It’s easy to use and I use one when sailing on my own.

[IslandAlchemy]

You can actually gybe the kite with it behind the forestay if you want to.  Just run the kite up inside the genoa sheets.

The head will not be perfect as it will be going over the top of the forestay after you gybe, but it still flies ok (unless you are racing of course).

[sy_Anniina]

If you are truly considering the bow platform for 2021, I would try to investigate if the front pin in anchor roller would tolerate the training loads (likely not heavy-weather usage) for the first year. The platform will have an anchor roller, so if you end up bending the exiting roller a bit, it won't be a total catastrophe.

1. Find sail load / force calculator online - cant't remember where, but I have seen some out there
2. Calculate tack line likely loads during your first season usage pattern
3. Pull the stemhead fitting with spinnaker halyard and force corresponding to point 2 above
4. some sideways jerking the halyard will show you if you are confident enough to try sailing with the foremost mounted tack-line

Love the bow platform myself, also makes it easier to moor to rocky islands in the non-tidal Baltic Sea

[Yngmar]

Just be aware that the Batsystem bow platform is not compatible with fitting a modern anchor with a roll bar. It'll probably work with the rollbar free Spade, Ultra or Vulcan models though. But even our neighbours old Delta hangs on them a bit crookedly, making for much less than a quarter turn around the windlass gypsy, which is problematic (chain can jump under load). Other than that I quite like the platforms, especially with the integrated bow ladder. Just make sure you register the boat length before adding the platform ;-)

[Mirror45184]

The Dynema loop/strop around the forestay tang is the best temporary solution.
For a permanent installation the Selden retractable bowsprit is the best way to go. Here it is on Synergy with the top down furler. I do a lot of single handed/short handed sailing and it is perfect for trouble free launching and retrieval of the Asymetric.

Cheers

[sy_Anniina]

Have to agree with Yngmar on both bow platform noncompatibility with roll-bars, as well as a bit crooked position with the CQR-copy we have (see previous photo).

Even though the chain does not wrap full 90 degrees on windlass gypsy, we have not had any problems so far (..touching wood..) and the chain has never jumped off. However we use the bow anchor only around 5 times per season, mostly in quite protected areas and always use a snubber line.

[Laysula]

We have the same bow roller as you. We have a block fitted to the front bar of the pulpit under the step with a flat stainless steel clip. We have also secured the pulpit at the front to the pivot on the bow roller with a turnbuckle to stiffen everything up.

[MagicalArmchair]

Thank you for all the great responses. This job has now crept to the top of the pile.

I don't want the platform, so it's either the selden bowsprit (orange below), or could I (at a considerable saving!) put a stainless U bolt to the step, going through it and bolting to the cross member underneath (red below). Would that be tough enough to take the loads? 

[symphony2]

Exactly what I did, except that I modified the strut that goes down to the bow fitting so the U bolt legs go through that as well so the load goes straight down to bow. Not clear from your photo exactly where and how your strut is fitted. On mine it was welded to the crossbar under the platform and in 2 parts with the upper sliding into a lower which was part of the bow fitting and locked in place with a small bolt. This enables the pulpit to be removed without removing the strut. I cut the upper part off the crossbar and had lugs welded on the side for the legs to go through. Quite tricky getting the angles right and a tight fit for the nut on the acute side of the angle of the strut.

Works OK but is a bit close to the forestay as my chute has a top down furler and is just within the recommended 30cm clearance. Not so big an issue with a free flying sail. 

 

[Yngmar]

I'd get a nice wooden beam about 5x5cm, lay it down where illustrated by the orange line, lash it to the bow fitting and the nearest mooring cleat and go see how well that works. Then refine it from there. The Seldén bowsprit isn't difficult to make yourself and meanwhile you can play with your new sail 

[MagicalArmchair]

Gosh, now you are talking... I could make my own... I have some Robins super elite ply in the garage that is 25mm thick, left over from an old job... glue two lengths together, and it down, it would be thing of beauty.

... something to varnish at last...?

I'd need an eye fitting for it to poke through like this one below:



Buy a Selden bracket? https://www.oceanchandlery.com/seldn-bowsprit-brackets.html  Any other bracket do the job?

edit: A soft shackle to a strong point here perhaps? https://www.force4.co.uk/item/Sea-Sure/Dyneema-Soft-Shackle/WT5

https://www.robbins.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Marine-Plywood-Datasheet.pdf

[Yngmar]

Buy the bracket or have it made if you have a capable stainless fabricator nearby. Or just see what else you can use. Dyneema lashings and a couple padeyes might do the job and be less obstructive when not in use.

There's aluminium tube in every size available: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254627967256

Some folk I've met used carbon fibre tubes from when raceboats snapped their spi poles in half, which they seem to do just about all of the time 

[symphony2]

You also need something to hold the back end down!

[MagicalArmchair]

As Yngmar points out, I could lash the other end to the cleat or put another set of pad eyes back there...

...however as the below picture of my second youngest brandishing my sailing knife demonstrates, my Knox anchor role bar might foul everything up.



Symphony, do you have any photos of your set up?

[symphony2]

I will take some tomorrow.

[MagicalArmchair]

Thank you 

[Rampage]

Just to add another option, I just use the snap shackle on the foot of the genoa to fly our chute from. A line goes through the shackle, back up to the sail and is made off with a hitch. Simple to rig and the chute flies well from it. Yes, you have to go forward to adjust if needed but since we only use the sail in light winds, that’s not an issue. Cost free as well…..

[geoff]

I have a short strop from the stemhead fitting  going outside the wooden seat thing and terminating just above it . The strop  then clears the base of the pullpit and keeps the sail forward and clear. When not in use it is connected to the spare halyard and tensioned. Geoff