Author Topic: Autopilot Clutch blowing fuses (Read 7364 times)

Kibo · « **on:** January 03 2019, 14:13 »

I have a Garmin autopilot hed unit and controller with a Lewmar motor drive. Vision 46 2014 model. The clutch is activated by solenoid and has a separate circuit from the controller. AS soon as I press engage on the head unit the fuse between the controller and the clutch blows. It is 5A and original as far as I know.

I have removed the motor, removed the planetary gear box so I can see the clutch and then tested the clutch by applying 12V directly to the unit wires. There is no solenoid activation as far as I can tell which presumably results in a circuit overload hence the fuse blowing.

I read a similar post about faulty rudder feedback sensors but it is not the same fault as far as I can see.

Anyone had any experience of this? It is not obvious how the clutch is removed from the motor housing either....

Any thoughts appreciated. I am in Antigua right now with no Lewmar dealer on island.

Thanks

Yngmar · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03 2019, 23:59 »

Which drive model is it? I've had ours apart, a Whitlock unit, similar to the Bavaria version of the Lewmar Integra.

The clutch plate visibly moves and there is also an audible clunk when it engages, although it needs to have the matching plate it engages to present for this to happen, otherwise nothing happens.

Kibo · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04 2019, 00:40 »

Hi Yngmar,

This is the Lewmar unit in the attached pdf. The clutch plate and unit is all there and definitely doesn't "clunk" when 12v applied to the unit activation wires so I suspect a fault in the solenoid.

Lyra · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04 2019, 05:52 »

Do not know this unit, but "electrically speaking" seems that your solenoid is shorting, hence no activation and over current.
5A fuse so I assume under normal conditions it consumes 2 amps or less - so its normal resistance should be 6 Ohm or above.
Not enough information in the manual to understand if the solenoid can be serviced/replaced separately or if the whole clutch is a "closed" unit.

Yngmar · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04 2019, 11:10 »

You probably have a short somewhere in the clutch then. Take it apart and have a look - nothing to lose there. Might be the windings have shorted, but this is rare and more likely it's just a broken wire or chafed insulation that has made contact somewhere and can be fixed.

Replacement clutch is silly money, unless you can identify who built it and find the original part. Whitlock/Lewmar most certainly did not build the part. Either will be hard to source in Antigua!

tiger79 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04 2019, 11:26 »

Quote from: Yngmar on January 04 2019, 11:10

Replacement clutch is silly money, unless you can identify who built it and find the original part.

There are some cheaper replacements available at around £450 versus £750 for the Lewmar bit. Eg...

https://thornam-shop.dk/shop/s-g-clutch-6043p.html
https://aura.szczecin.pl/czesci-do-autopilotow/10052-sprzeglo-autopilota-integra-mk2.html

Kibo · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04 2019, 14:41 »

Thanks all. I think that the consensus is correct about a short in the clutch somewhere.

Yngmar do you have advice on how to dismantle the clutch. I have undone the grub screw on the shaft but the clutch will not slide out. I don't want to destroy something below the clutch by forcing it. Maybe it is simply friction and I need to ease it out with a little more "help" but any advice would be appreciated.

I think I'm going to end up having to get one shipped into Antigua. Ouch $$$$!

Ronald · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04 2019, 15:08 »

Hi Kibo

Please find the build Manual from lewmar.
If you reverse it you see how to disconnect the clutch.

Regards Ronald..

Kibo · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04 2019, 16:25 »

Hi Ronald, That is great info. many thanks

Yngmar · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04 2019, 18:55 »

Quote from: Kibo on January 04 2019, 14:41

Yngmar do you have advice on how to dismantle the clutch. I have undone the grub screw on the shaft but the clutch will not slide out. I don't want to destroy something below the clutch by forcing it. Maybe it is simply friction and I need to ease it out with a little more "help" but any advice would be appreciated.

On ours the clutch just came apart, I don't recall any special effort. Although looking at Ronald's assembly instructions, our older Whitlock model is quite a bit different from the newer Lewmar design depicted therein.

Kibo · « **Reply #10 on:** January 04 2019, 19:14 »

Thanks again for all the thoughts.

I tried to disassemble the clutch but ......

Unfortunately it seems that my model is a newer one than depicted in the assembly instructions. My clutch does not have the assembly screws depicted and the casing has the access ports moulded over in the injection moulding process. You can see where the holes were designed to be but they are solid mouldings in my case.

I think the clutch assembly is intended to be simply replaced in the event of failure since it is a designated "spare part" in the brochure I found.

I guess I'm in for a new clutch assembly and shipping costs.....

Kibo · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05 2019, 00:14 »

Update...

I took apart the whole drive assembly by taking off the motor and working back to the clutch. Needed a couple of surclips (spring rings in US?) undoing but eventually extracted the clutch assembly.

Found that indeed the whole clutch assembly is not "user serviceable" as is the way these days and is now a closed and crimped unit so you cannot get at the solenoid assembly. Helpfully Lewmar have provided me with the model number I need to order so I guess its time to B.O.A.T. (Break Out Another Thousand) .....

Hope it helps someone else in the future.....but hopefully yours will last longer than 5 years....

Kibo · « **Reply #12 on:** January 18 2019, 17:29 »

Update

Clutch unit is available as a separate part. I was recommended that it is best to get it direct from the manufacturers, Stephenson Gobin in the UK. However there is a long lead time on these parts of over 6 weeks to make plus ship time.

Since I need an autopilot with just the two of us onboard I ended up sourcing a whole new drive unit and having it shipped to Antigua from Lewmar UK (via a chandler). I will fit that and hopefully it will be problem solved. Antigua is duty free for "yacht in transit" so at least I save the tax (small victories).

I will then order a new clutch when I am back in the UK in May so next winter season I can take it out to the boat and will then have a complete spare drive unit as a backup. Spares are good to have out in the Caribbean.....

Hope it helps someone else in the future

paulemeier1 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 19 2019, 12:38 »

what is the price for the new clutch?
maybe the number also
regards

Kibo · « **Reply #14 on:** January 19 2019, 16:29 »

I don't have the price for the clutch but the whole unit including gearbox, clutch and motor was UKP1900 I think someone posted alternate options for the clutch earlier above. There it was said UKP450 - 700 I think.

The number for the clutch is in the pdf file I posted about 5 replies ago. Download taht and you will see the Lewmar part number for he clutch on the last page of the pdf document.

You can also get the clutch directly from the manufacturer Stephenson Gobin in the UK, which is where Lewmar would get it from if you ordered one from them so I would go direct to the maker. That is what I will do when I get back to the UK.

Craig · « **Reply #15 on:** January 19 2019, 22:30 »

Ian,

I can't tell from the diagrams and the description as to whether the problems you have are the same as those I faced in 2012 and 2014. Lewmar replaced my motor/clutch twice under warranty. The first Autopilot ( installed at the factory in 2009) failed in light conditions. The replacement autopilot failed in similar conditions 2 years later. During this time I was sailing in the Med, mainly with my wife on board so we often used the autopilot, generally in light conditions. We travelled more than 10,000nm during those years, mostly using the autopilot. Both autopilots were between 2 and 3 years old when they failed.

The Lewmar autopilots produced about this time had a problem with the clutches not engaging. It was not a fuse issue but a wear issue with a "wire" in the clutch assembly. Unlike previous Lewmar autopilots the part can not be serviced economically. It was a break in the electrical connection to the clutch according to Lewmar. ( not a fuse as such) The units appear to be almost completely sealed and as Lewmar replaced the whole Autopilot under warranty, I did not investigate further.

Lewmar claim that the replacement I received in 2014 ( December I think) fixed the clutch issue. Your autopilot may have been produced before the change was implemented.

As I was travelling to Britain at the time, I took the second failed autopilot and actually dropped it off at Lewmar's premises in Havant near Portsmouth. The staff at Lewmar were great. Best customer service I have ever seen. They were aware of the issue and just replaced the Autopilot with a new one. I was not required to send the first failed unit back to their factory and the second was thrown into a bin.

I would strongly recommend that you phone the customer support staff at Havant and get their recommendations.

Craig
"Shirley Valentine"
Gold Coast
Australia

Kibo · « **Reply #16 on:** January 20 2019, 02:22 »

Thanks Craig

Interesting. My issue symptom is definitely the fuse blowing but maybe it is the same root cause you describe.

I have been in email contact with the Lewmar technical manager in the UK with a personal recommendation/introduction from a friend and he suggested sending the unit back for assessment.

As I said above I decided for expedience to buy a new one so will fit that tomorrow and hopefully it will be OK.

I will then take the faulty/failed unit back to the UK in April and hopefully get it fixed and keep it as a spare for future use.

kavok · « **Reply #17 on:** January 21 2019, 22:19 »

Quote from: Ronald on January 04 2019, 15:08

Hi Kibo

Please find the build Manual from lewmar.
If you reverse it you see how to disconnect the clutch.

Regards Ronald..

Hallo,
is possible to have similar manual for Lewmar Mamba !/4 hp motor I have on my Cruiser 40 2008?
Many tanks in advance,
Angelo

Ronald · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22 2019, 08:42 »

Hi Kavoc
De motor is the same as the integra. The Mamba has a different connection to the steering installation.

The integra sprocket wheel sits on the spines normally connected to the Mamba drive. You can undo this by removing one Alan bolt in the centre of the sprocket and the. The integra is the same as the Mamba.

The difference is the number at the end where integra is 136 and Mamba is 137. Or very old number may end at 111 but these where discontinued.

Effectively when mine broke I changed my mamba for a spare integra. I had no clutch problem but my issue was that the gear connecting to the clutch held by 3 Alan bolts inside the motor became loose and at the end damaged the gears. I am pretty sure when inspecting them there was no loctite remains present as is required by the installation guide. Ordered a new gear set and the unit was fine again.
Hope this helps. Ronald

Kibo · « **Reply #19 on:** January 22 2019, 16:11 »

Pleased to report new unit fitted and working fine. Diagnosis of a faulty clutch seems correct.

umu · « **Reply #20 on:** February 18 2019, 15:36 »

Some additional information on this subject, I just went thru a clutch replacement myself.

There were two generations of the Integra base drive. First generation ending with 111 and the mk2 version 89300136. And then while still using the same part number 89300136 two generations of the clutch - the newest version of the clutch holds the clutch gap by shims instead of a grub screw. This newest version of the clutch was used from around 2014 onwards.
There seemed to be some modifications of the housing between the ..111 and ..136 versions, so not sure if you can use the newer model clutch with the older drive unit.
Lewmar sells them for around 500 GBP plus VAT (if boat is in the EU) plus shipping. Can be ordered right thru their technical support hotline - phone number is on the website.
I also checked the original part supplied to Lewmar by Stephenson Gobin. However it is NOT the complete set as supplied by Lewmar, the anchor plate is modified/an adapter plate added by Lewmar and they also shim the clutch gap. This is all doable but the lead time (Lewmar had it in stock and shipped the same day vs. at least 4 weeks from Stephenson Gobin) and a price difference of around 100 GBP made me go for the Lewmar version.
One more thing - Lewmar supplies the replacement clutch with a cable tie close to the cable exit from the coil. Leave it there, once mounted pull tight until this cable tie is tight to the inside of the housing and add one cable tie on the outside. This is to keep the length of cable on the inside to the appropriate length. If it is too long inside it can be caught by the gear sprockets!

Kibo · « **Reply #21 on:** February 18 2019, 22:42 »

Thanks Umu. Mine was the newer version with no grub screws. The body moulding has only been modified to the extent that there are no access holes in the newer body but you can see where the mould has been modified by an outline of the insert fitting

I am going to now order a new clutch from Lewmar and rebuild my old unit as a spare. I think it’s worth it for 500 quid. I will be in the UK mid April for a while