Bavaria Yacht Info
Member Forums => Bavaria Yacht Help! => Topic started by: MagicalArmchair on October 29 2019, 21:24
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I have just purchased a Bavaria 40 (2002 J & J designs) and want to put her to bed for the winter.
To drain the two water tanks, just turn on a tap and let it run until its pumping air? Or is that too much stress for the fresh water pump to be under and should I find another way to drain the tanks?
How to drain the rest of the system? I have some food grade antifreeze I could run through and leave in the system to save draining down the calorifier?
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The pump should handle it just fine. Ours is a Shurflo and isn't bothered by pumping out both tanks repeatedly when we do our annual maintenance.
Antifreeze sounds good. Probably better than draining anyways, as less likely to miss a puddle somewhere.
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When it comes to draining the calorifier turn your taps being used for the water to run out of to the hot position and let it run until no more water comes out, and do it with all taps individually and not forgetting the deck shower ⛄️❄️
If the boat is ashore for the winter, I use the deck shower hose as the drain and pull it out as far as it will go and leave it dangling overboard where it then also acts somewhat as a Syphon with its end being below the underside of the hull. Don’t forget to remove the shower head from the end of the deck shower, just in case any water remains within it as the cost of replacing the head will not amuse !!
To combat the risk of frost damage I’ve installed a couple of mains electric pole heaters, one located next to the calorifier and the other next to the water pump and pressure vessel. It does mean leaving the shore power supply connected and switched on which normally I try to avoid, but with global warming our winters in parts of the UK don’t always get so cold.
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Thank you, I'll try the wash down shower to drain them out (I must admit, I haven't yet tried that one, so I'll need to locate it first...!)
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When it comes to draining the calorifier turn your taps being used for the water to run out of to the hot position and let it run until no more water comes out, and do it with all taps individually and not forgetting the deck shower ⛄️❄️
That won't drain the calorifier; the hot water outlet is from a pipe which goes up to the top of the tank. To drain it, use the cold inlet or the PRV, depending on the way it's plumbed.
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Great, thank you.I'll use the shower to drain down the tanks before I clean them out (there is some dirt in the bottom of both tanks), then I'll put a drop of anti freeze in and run that through the pipes.
Stupid question alert... (old boat had only cold water). To run the antifreeze through the calorifier, do you need to run the hot tap?
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............to run the antifreeze through the calorifier, do you need to run the hot tap?
I would, but others might do it differently.
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Stupid question alert... (old boat had only cold water). To run the antifreeze through the calorifier, do you need to run the hot tap?
Yes. The calorifier is pressurized (and filled) by the pressurized cold water from the pump, with hot water coming out at the top (if heated by the engine coolant or immersion heater).
(https://www.sailboat-cruising.com/images/boat-water-heater2.jpg)
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To avoid filling the whole calorifier with antifreeze, I drain The calorifier and connect calorifier cold input tube directly to hot output, thus bypassing the now-empty calorifier.
Thus enables me to fill hot water plumbing and hot side of taps with antifreeze.
BR
Tommi
s/y Anniina
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Thank you, that diagram is very helpful indeed. As is the tip of draining down the calorifier. Do these Bavaria's have a water filter built in somewhere? If it does exist, where is it and what sort of element does it need?
On de winterising, is there anything else I need to do to recharge the system with water to prevent air locks?
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Do these Bavaria's have a water filter built in somewhere? If it does exist, where is it and what sort of element does it need?
On de winterising, is there anything else I need to do to recharge the system with water to prevent air locks?
Many Bavarias have an inline strainer fitted just before the pressure pump (see pic). Mine has a Whale pump, but the Jabsco ones are similar. The metal mesh strainer can be removed and cleaned.
In the spring, you just need to fill the tanks, turn the pump on and open hot and cold taps to let air out.
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Thank you for the responses, so here is my pump and expansion tank. Ah ha, is the strainer the thing that sits between the two?
(https://i.imgur.com/jgtljXl.jpg)
And I found (eventually!!!) the calorifier, any thoughts on how I would drain the little sucker once I have all the water out? Or whether I should even bother? It's lagged quite well by the looks of it...
(https://i.imgur.com/RCl2idmh.jpg)
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If you want to drain the calorifier, then the pressure release valve should at the lowest point in the tank. Open that and the calorifier will empty out: open a hot tap and turn the pump off, open the valve and it’ll drain by gravity.
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If you want to drain the calorifier, then the pressure release valve should at the lowest point in the tank. Open that and the calorifier will empty out: open a hot tap and turn the pump off, open the valve and it’ll drain by gravity.
Is there any way to catch the water or do you just let it run into the bulge and clean up from there?
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At least my calorifier has long enough piping that I can unmount and lift it high enough to be drained to a bucket.
Tommi
s/y Anniina
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Is there any way to catch the water or do you just let it run into the bulge and clean up from there?
That’s probably easiest but you could run a bit of pipe from the PRV to a container.
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And the PRV would be somewhere at the bottom of this side of the calorifier pictured below, and it'll just "unscrew" by hand?
(https://i.imgur.com/RCl2idml.jpg)
And it'll look a bit like one of these suckers when I find it?
https://www.vetus-shop.com/vetus-pressure-relief-valve-12-bsp-barand34-p-3218.html
Thanks again for the help.
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Hi,
Your PRV may look like mine (B35E yr 2000) - have just replaced the calorifier as the PRV was continuously leaking as well as other fittings leaking and tank not keeping water hot very well. The PRV will be at the bottom of the tank on the cold in supply and should have a second length of blue hose attached, which probably just goes to the bilge around the engine. Hold open the small lever will allow the water into the drain pipe (collect in a container).
Mike
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Hi,
Your PRV may look like mine (B35E yr 2000) - have just replaced the calorifier as the PRV was continuously leaking as well as other fittings leaking and tank not keeping water hot very well. The PRV will be at the bottom of the tank on the cold in supply and should have a second length of blue hose attached, which probably just goes to the bilge around the engine. Hold open the small lever will allow the water into the drain pipe (collect in a container).
Mike
Great, thanks Mike. I’m on the boat now and have located the pipe you speak of however it’s got a cap on the end. Guess that needs removing first?
(https://i.imgur.com/JqQFyH2.jpg)
This is the end of the pipe that runs out of the top of my last photo
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Look carefully at all the pipework. Some Bavaria’s (mine included) have the PRV linked by a bit of pipe leading back into the water tank, so that any water coming out of the valve doesn’t go into the bilge but into the tank.
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If you take the pipe from the hand pump you use for oil changes, it will be the right diameter to stick down that blue pipe once you take that end cap off. If you then pump, you'll get about 10 litres out of the calorifier. You might need to leave a hot tap in the heads open to allow air into the calorifier, and maybe also turn the prv so it sits open.
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Thank you all, the above was a life safer. I removed that cap in my last photo, left the PRV open and all the water in the calorifier entered my bilge through that pipe. Lots of mopping later, and we were done. Clearly I'll find a less messy way of doing this next winter once I have the boat back home, but this ticked the box for now and she is now safe.
Thanks again.
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I may be wrong but I was under the impression that the white 'cap' is a 'breather' and should be kept above the height of the water tank?
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The white cap (Whale WX1546B) is just an end stop for an unused pipe, not a breather.
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Hi
I'd like to drain mine (Bav 30), but am not sure exactly which pipe - I'm guessing it's the one adjacent to the red knob?
How best to remove without risking spoiling the seal?
(http://)
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Yup, that's right. That travels into the engine bay, and goes underneath some engine pipes. Lift those engine pipes, lift that pipe up, remove the end cap (push it down onto the pipe, and then pull back to pull it off). The PRV turns around and around, turn it around so you can feel it release and open, and then all the water will flood into your bilge. ::)
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Locate the blue pipe with the end cap that sits on the floor at the port side of the engine. Access is via the hatch in the aft cabin. Remove the hatch, poke your head in and look down and you will see the blue pipe. I have a Bav 30 and always drain from there. Make sure you have the water pump off, and even so, there can still be a bit of water pressure in the pipe, so don't point the pipe at yourself when taking the cap off. Don't ask me why I know! If you use your oil change pump as described above you get all the water into a handy container rather than mucking about with buckets etc.
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Excellent advice, thanks all.
Job done today, hadn't realised quite how much water sits in there!
Bertie
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DISCLAIMER: I've owned my 1998 Bavaria 38 Ocean longer than I've owned my business, Torrid Marine, makers of yacht quality marine water heaters ranging in size from 6 to 80 gallons.
This is not a promo or pitch for my business other than to say that marine water heaters are a mysterious piece of equipment for most boat owners and here are a few tips that we believe everyone should know.
1. Water heaters work using convective heating. Hot water rises in thermal layers and exits the top most fitting or outlet (red).
2. Most installations do not consider the need for periodic or annual maintenance. The best time to consider the long-term maintenance needs of a water heater is before it's installed.
3. The easiest to maintain water heaters are equipped with either a dedicated drain or simply an inline bypass valve at the lowest fitting, the fresh water inlet (blue). Often this bypass uses GHT-garden hose threading-so that a garden hose can be used to purposefully direct the water being drained.
4. A proper installation includes a check valve near the inlet that prevents hot water migration into the cold water manifold and keeps sediment from being forced backwards into the fresh water tank. It also includes a small accumulator between the check valve and the hot water heater to allow for expansion during the heating process.
5. Inspecting and replacing the anodes is the best way to extend the life of a marine water heater.
6. A thermostatic mixing valve balances the temperature of the hot water produced with electricity vs. from engine coolant and increases the effective usable capacity by approximately 25%.
7. Reverse osmosis or water maker water is very pure but can damage a hot water heater because of its reduced pH level. The protective anode is rarely sufficient to stand up to RO water for very long.
8. A calcium carbonate buffer can be added to an RO system to remineralize the water but it will also fall out of solution and accumulate at the bottom of the hot water heater's tank.
9. The PRV or T&P or Pop-off pressure relief valve should not be used to facilitate draining as particulate can interfere with a good seal.
10. There is a vacuum inside a sealed fresh water system so opening an inline drain may not cause the hot water heater and fresh water system to drain.
11. When maintaining and draining the hot water heater, it is a good idea to turn off the fresh water pressure pump and hot water heater at the distribution panel.
12. Always allow plenty of cool down time (a day) before attempting to maintain a marine water heater as the stored water can be quite hot and cause severe burns.
13. When in doubt call an experienced professional to help out.
I trust these are helpful tips.
Jeff
S/V Zephyrus 1998 B38 Ocean
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Thanks Jeff, all very useful information. In particular I didn’t know that there might be an anode somewhere within the hot water system.
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Why not buy a green house tube heater and fix it in beside the calorifier keep the frost away.
Mike
Artemis
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May work on climate warmer than Finland. ;). Even if today is +1, we need to prepare for -20 or so.
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DISCLAIMER: I've owned my 1998 Bavaria 38 Ocean longer than I've owned my business, Torrid Marine, makers of yacht quality marine water heaters ranging in size from 6 to 80 gallons.
This is not a promo or pitch for my business other than to say that marine water heaters are a mysterious piece of equipment for most boat owners and here are a few tips that we believe everyone should know.
1. Water heaters work using convective heating. Hot water rises in thermal layers and exits the top most fitting or outlet (red).
2. Most installations do not consider the need for periodic or annual maintenance. The best time to consider the long-term maintenance needs of a water heater is before it's installed.
3. The easiest to maintain water heaters are equipped with either a dedicated drain or simply an inline bypass valve at the lowest fitting, the fresh water inlet (blue). Often this bypass uses GHT-garden hose threading-so that a garden hose can be used to purposefully direct the water being drained.
4. A proper installation includes a check valve near the inlet that prevents hot water migration into the cold water manifold and keeps sediment from being forced backwards into the fresh water tank. It also includes a small accumulator between the check valve and the hot water heater to allow for expansion during the heating process.
5. Inspecting and replacing the anodes is the best way to extend the life of a marine water heater.
6. A thermostatic mixing valve balances the temperature of the hot water produced with electricity vs. from engine coolant and increases the effective usable capacity by approximately 25%.
7. Reverse osmosis or water maker water is very pure but can damage a hot water heater because of its reduced pH level. The protective anode is rarely sufficient to stand up to RO water for very long.
8. A calcium carbonate buffer can be added to an RO system to remineralize the water but it will also fall out of solution and accumulate at the bottom of the hot water heater's tank.
9. The PRV or T&P or Pop-off pressure relief valve should not be used to facilitate draining as particulate can interfere with a good seal.
10. There is a vacuum inside a sealed fresh water system so opening an inline drain may not cause the hot water heater and fresh water system to drain.
11. When maintaining and draining the hot water heater, it is a good idea to turn off the fresh water pressure pump and hot water heater at the distribution panel.
12. Always allow plenty of cool down time (a day) before attempting to maintain a marine water heater as the stored water can be quite hot and cause severe burns.
13. When in doubt call an experienced professional to help out.
I trust these are helpful tips.
Jeff
S/V Zephyrus 1998 B38 Ocean
Hello there,
Wait... there's an anode in the water heater?? Where please? I would like to check mine if there is such a beastie. And using the PRV is a bad idea to maintain the system and drain it down? Right, so in future, fit a bypass valve somewhere low in the pipe work to allow it to be drained down. (To be fair, where I will be wintering her I will be able to plug in to mains to keep her toasty over winter, so I could just not drain her I suppose, hmm)
Merry Christmas all
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There is no anode in the calorifier, nor is there any need as only fresh water circulates through the coil (from the engine freshwater circuit) and the water being heated is of course also fresh.
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Anodes were introduced to home water heaters in the early 1970s to combat corrosion and extend the life of water heaters beyond the magical five year warranty period. They were an early response to planned obsolescence.
Anodes are absolutely necessary on marine water heaters and are standard equipment on high quality marine water heaters. The purpose is to act as a defense again the effects of hard water vs. soft and to address the variabilities of pH levels in the source water; not all fresh water is chemically identical. The anode is there to buffer these differences in fresh water composition and to protect the other metal components found in marine water heaters such as the fittings found between the inner pressure vessel and outer connections.
We have encountered high quality water heaters that have failed in as short a period of three years. If the water is not naturally buffered and mineralized it will become so by attacking and dissolving any metal it can encounter. The anode offers itself up in a galvanic reaction to self-sacrifice and provide some protection to those more noble. Magnesium is naturally an alkaline metal and is one of the most common minerals found in fresh water but it's a balancing act because too much leads to "hard" water and the related issues of spots and scaling.
The biggest enemy to marine water heaters is a water maker or reverse osmosis water because it is both highly de-mineralized and has a slightly acidic pH. In the case of boats that use RO, we recommend a pre-buffer as internal anode protection may not be enough to rebuffer and increase to pH to neutral. Unfortunately this is like adding vitamins to an otherwise unhealthy diet or treating an upset digestive system with antacids; it's an unnatural fix that has side effects. In the case of marine water heaters the side effect is accumulation of deposits at the bottom of the water heater and depletion of the anode.
For all of these reasons anodes should exist and should be regularly inspected and replaced as necessary. It's the best insurance that a new marine water heater will last for many years.