Bavaria 40 Ocean - what to look out for?

[Yngmar]

I'm viewing a Bavaria 40 Ocean this weekend. What typical problems should I look out for?

From my own research, I know Bavaria used Rutgerson hatches for a while, which seemed to leak a lot. What else?

[geoff]

The small size of ruttgerson leaked. The toe rail leaked in the area of the rear cabin wardrobe ,easy to see as it stains the wood shelf of the dressing table. The deck cleats loosen with time but are easy to correct. The md 22 engine has a tendency to smoke but no problem. Overall very happy with it [ 15 years now from new ] Geoff

[Symphony]

Rutgerson hatches that leaked were 2000/2001 but should have been replaced under warranty. Gebo hatches are a direct replacements. Other than the leaks which are common to most Bavarias of the period there is nothing particular to worry about - but the boat is 15 years old and many have led a very active life! Note the observations on corroded heat exchangers on the engine in other threads here. Check the saildrive closely as the type fitted is now obsolete and serious trouble might mean a replacement with the latest type.

[njsail]

I've owned a Bavaria 40 Ocean now for years.   A very solid boat but as they age there are some key points to look for.  The Rugerson hatches on the deck tend to leak so I replaced them all with Lewmar 60's after trying to reseal the lens.   The Rugerson port-lights are great - translate don't leak so I kept them.   The saildrive check the records to see when the rubber gator (the seal between the drive leg and the boat) was last replaced.   Volvo says 7-10 yrs is the replacement length.  I replaced mine a couple years back - gives me a piece of mind.  It's a big job so if it's an old seal account for the price of replacement.   I don't know any Ocean 40's with blisters or any hull issues but check around and see if there is any issues.    The deck is the other thing to check - luckily Bavaria did something really good with the teak deck - it's only glued on with no screws.   My deck lifted in a couple places and I need to epoxy it back down.  Not a big job but takes a few steps.   Bottom line is the deck won't leak because of the teak - it's only ornamental and a little epoxy and it's good as new.  I've done it a couple times as others have too.    My biggest pet peeve which I fixed was replacing all of the thru hulls with proper bronze sea cocks.   The boat originally came from the factory with something that may have been bronze but the sea cock handles were steel. not sure why a marine boat would have steel handles on a saftey item.   A few of mine were rusted and it bothered me so I replaced them all.  Not a simple job nor cheap but my goal was to have a boat that would take me anywhere safely.   
After owning one for many years I have to say it's a great all around boat.   I have been through some heavy weather in it and felt safe and she handles like a dream.  She's really comfortable at anchor too. The rest of the items are things you need to check on any sailboat.  Good luck looking at the boat.  Let us know how you made out. 

[Yngmar]

Thanks guys, most helpful! Will let you know how it went.

[Captain Golla]

Ive just a bought a 2005 B39. In Thailand. To be cruised in Indonesian waters.
Unexpected issues were
1. a wheel steering autopilot which could not cope and I am now fitting a proper linear drive auto.
2. Severe corrosion on base of windlass which is not visible from above. Had to fit extra brackets.
3. The rudder turned out to be water logged. Have opened up the bottom to drain as much of it out as possible and then re-glass so just a patch job for now.
4. Engine issues obviously not related to Bavaria.

I am also doing a lot of extra yard work to my boat currently such as
-solar arch with 500watts of solar
-dingy davits
-2 outlet deckwash (anchor and stern)
-recaulking teak deck
-replacing saildrive seal
-new self aligning rudder bearing
-replacing the big head ball valves
-adding a second transducer
-new garmin linear drive autopilot
-all sorts of engine work like pump and injectors
-servicing alternator and starter
-adding oil pressure and engine temp gauges at consol and inside
-new battery bank (Trojan T105's)
and all the other regular haul out items
I am not going to be doing big crossings but lots of time off the grid around the outer islands

[Yngmar]

So the viewing went well. I was surprised at how much more storage she offers compared to the Moody 425 I'd also looked at, despite being half a foot shorter. The rig actually looked fairly good despite being 15 years old, but she hasn't been sailed much. There was rainwater standing in the companionway hatch grooves and on top of the hatch, which seemed like it had nowhere to drain due to lack of slope.

The boat hasn't been used in some time and it shows. There are many minor issues and a few possibly serious ones that need looking at (I'll get a survey done if my offer is accepted).

I didn't find signs of leaks at the overhead hatches, but two of the portlights were leaking. Probably need reseating.

There was however a significant leak on top of the V-berth starboard side locker, that looked like it was coming from the deck/hull joint, or more likely the toe rail. Which brings me to my first question - how is this teak toe rail built and where does it leak? I assume the GRP flange the teak sits on is part of the deck, not the hull, but I'm not sure where it would leak - is it just the holes were the teak is screwed into the flange? The leak wasn't near a cleat, although the water may be running along the inside of the toe rail before entering the cabin. What's involved in fixing this if anyone did it before?

Most of the stanchions and even the pulpit were rather wobbly too, so that may be related to the above. And many of the other lockers showed signs of historic water ingress in the same area (top near toe rail) but were dry now (it had rained lightly a couple hours before).

The engine (MD22) had some significant corrosion which will need treating (whose clever idea was it to place the raw water impeller on top so that when it inevitably leaked, it would get seawater all over everything?). Exhaust elbow is corroded and probably needs replacing. The muffler (why is there a muffler?) looked brand new. The saildrive transmission fluid (not oil) was foamy , which means there's water in it (probably the prop shaft seal).

There was also an Eberspächer heater in the transom, which was pretty much corroded through (I thought they were designed for marine use), although from what I've just googled that may just be the outer casing.

Also could someone confirm the location of the holding tank? My best guess was behind the sink in the head, but I didn't take the cover off to check.

Thanks for all the help (and thanks Nigel [I think] for maintaining this site).

[njsail]

Glad you got out to see the boat.  The holding tank is behind the shower wall (really).  It is mounted to the right side hull.  I actually replaced all the hoses and removed the whole tank to power wash the inside (yuk but it was sparkling clean).   Many other boat manufacturers bury the holding tank in the bilge and it's almost impossible to service or replace without substantial cost.   The stantion connections aren't my favorite but some are a bit wobbly.   If there is a leak it is probably not the toe rail.  The stantions may be the culprit and need to be reseated/resealed.  Also remember water from a leak can travel long and far and may not be local to the water itself.       If the ports were leaking - they may not need reseating...they might need new rubber gaskets that are glued onto the port window.  The rugerson ports have 3 nobs that when turned vary pressure to get the proper seal on the long windows.  if you notice the nob is turned all the way to the end then it could be a rubber seal replacement needed.   Our ports leaked slightly for months when I first purchased the boat and it was driving me crazy...until my little dog walking around the deck smelled bacon being cooked in the galley.  He scratched open several screens before I could stop him.  I love that dog.  The screens were the problem  causing the leaking.  The prior owner put screen over inside frame and the rubber seal never made a perfect seal because of the screen.  I would never have realize it until I removed the broken screens.   I gave the dog the bacon - he earned it.

The transmission fluid should not be foamy.  I think when water is present it becomes milky - never heard of foamy.    To drain the transmission fluid you need to haul the boat out of the water...and at the bottom of the saildrive leg there is a big screw that when removed allows complete draining of the transmission fluid. 

[Yngmar]

The transmission fluid should not be foamy.  I think when water is present it becomes milky - never heard of foamy.

Aye, that's what I thought too. But doing some research showed that Volvo used actual transmission fluid in the earlier saildrives (as opposed to motor oil, a recommendation they changed later on) - this stuff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_transmission_fluid

It is pink when new and turns brown eventually. Unlike motor oil, it doesn't mix with water to turn milky, but forms bubbles (foam) instead. So the sail drive will need need both bottom seals and an oil change (at least I'm hoping it's that. Will see at lift-out).

Nice story about your diagnostic dog

[Symphony]

I have new set of seals for the bottom of the saildrive - surplus to requirements as I now have a later 130 drive. let me know if you are interested.

[njsail]

There are no seals to change with the saildrive oil change.  Yes the transmission fluid is pink. It is very viscous and drips out very slowly...so I usually open it...let it drip into a pan while I go for lunch.    Here in the North East US I pull the boat every winter so changing the oil is done in the fall or spring when the boat is up on sticks.     There is a rubber seal that many Bavaria's with saildrives on the outside of the hull to keep seaweed or whatever out from the several inches before the watertight seal inside the engine room floor is encountered.   Mine doesn't have one...and I just take a toilet brush (translate stiff bristles) and give it a rub inside to clear out any growth.   Then in the fall I spray inside with Trilux 33 antifouling paint along with the rest of the leg.   never had a problem and as I've never had a problem with the trans fluid either.  hope I didn't curse myself.

[Kaptajnen]

Check out my post from yesterday. We have a 2000 Bavaria Center Cockpit Ocean, which should be similar to the boat you are looking at. If you it has the VP MD 22-L engine/ S120 Saildrive combo I would be very concerned about the foam in the saildrive.

Quote:
How to protect the VP 130S saildrive from Galvanic Corrosion
« on: Yesterday at 03:58 »
QuoteModifyRemove
 The below series of photos illustrate the work performed at Seaview West Boatyard by Mark Hiraiwa of Auxiliary Engine Service. Mark removed the Volvo Penta 130S sail drive that had suffered catastrophic galvanic corrosion damage from stray currents due to the faulty installation by the authorized Volvo Penta dealer in who failed to isolate the drive as mandated by Volvo Penta and repeatedly requested by the customer. Mark's meticulous work resulted in the replacement 130S sail drive being installed according to Volvo Penta specifications resulting in successful electrical isolation of the drive, thus protecting the new drive from destructive galvanic stray currents. Additionally, the drive is protected by a large protective zinc installed on the hull directly above the prop. A Volvo Penta Active Corrosion Prevention system provides continual monitoring and additional protection of the sail drive.

Link to photos and captions:

https://picasaweb.google.com/106055139639489519991/AuxiliaryEngineServiceWorkPhotos?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCPqkj72M1b2teQ&feat=directlink

[Yngmar]

Aye, I'm aware of saildrive galvanic corrosion risk and that it needs to be insulated. This is something that would show up in the survey though (to be done this week). If there are no obvious signs of it, the water most likely came through the bottom seal (where the prop shaft exits the leg), which is not difficult to replace.

Thanks for sharing these grisly pictures

[Kaptajnen]

There is no way to isolate the 120S saildrive form the MD-22 engine.

A new 130S rpt. 130S saildrive can be isolated fom the MD-22 engine, as shown in the photos I posted.

[Yngmar]

So to summarize, I've bought the boat. Survey came back with the usual list of things on a 15 year old boat (rig, sails, seacocks, skin-fittings, hoses), plus a destroyed Eberspächer heater (water from the rudder top bushing dribbled on it and it corroded away). Plenty of leaks from loose stanchions / mooring cleats. One unpleasant surprise was a delaminated area on the topsides that will need re-coring. It's a the maximum beam, so probably from being crushed against a quay or another boat. I've got a quote for that and the price has been adjusted accordingly. Engine is serviceable with some minor parts. Excellent (low) moisture readings of the hull.

She's been sitting in the water for 2 years without much attention, so I got charged for an extra half hour of pressure washing (see photo). The saildrive leg is in good condition, showing no signs of corrosion and the anode was only about 20% gone. @Kaptajnen, I'm pretty sure the 120S-E is insulated, but will check when I next get to the boat.

Thanks everyone for your input. I'll guess I'll be seen around here more often now

[blue-max]

Interesting if you could post a photo of the delamination. My rubbing strake has been crushed below mid-ships cleat but no hull damage visible

[Yngmar]

Interesting if you could post a photo of the delamination. My rubbing strake has been crushed below mid-ships cleat but no hull damage visible

There is nothing to see, the surveyor found it by knocking on the hull with a plastic hammer. When I knock in the area, it's clearly audible - it's a more hollow sound than the rest of the hull.

[Nigel]

There is no way to isolate the 120S saildrive form the MD-22 engine.

A new 130S rpt. 130S saildrive can be isolated fom the MD-22 engine, as shown in the photos I posted.

The latter is the combination that I now have. No isolation between saildrive and engine, but engine only grounded by start/stop relay.