Engine won't start

[Marymac]

hi everyone, I have just joined & this is my first post, very glad to be a member.
I have a Bavaria 38, 2018, went to go sailing this morning, turned on the electrics , all ok, but the engine won't start.
The heater plug & starter button are dead, with no life on the fuel & Rev dials???
Any thoughts?
Many thanks in advance, it is much appreciated
Mary

[solar]

Maybe because it is a 2018 model...? :}
They use advanced energy some sort of dark matter by then...
 

[Odysseus]

Check the relays in black cover port side engine, pull out push back in.

This is a classic source of starting issues..

See photo

Hope this helps.

Odysseus
Bav 38

[Marchi]

Did you pushed the power button ON, on the engine start board (outside)?

[dawntreader]

If you're happy that there is sufficient power in the batteries - other devices work, for example - try turning the ignition switch on and off a few times. Sometimes these switches get slight corrosion when not used for a while and fail to operate.

[IslandAlchemy]

Do you have any in-line fuses?

[Marymac]

Hi all thanks very much for all the comments and advice, I went on the boat this morning and the problem is now solved. First time on the boat in awhile and the batteries were dead. 😊😊

[Salty]

Hi Mary,

A useful modification fitted to many charter boats is a crossover system that will allow you to use the "House" batteries in the event that the starter battery has gone flat. It is important though that this system is not left permanently switched in as that could allow both sets of batteries to run flat. I have such system on my B36 2002, and it is fitted with a battery switch to permit isolation from the house batteries until it should be needed. I've had the boat five years now and have never needed it, but it is reassuring to know that the system is there for emergency use should I ever need it.

[Sweet As]

Salty,
I am keen to fit a similar system on our 2004 B36. Couldyouplease post a simple wiring diagram?
Much appreciated.

[MarkTheBike]

Hi all

This sounds like a good idea, but is there any problem with just having a good set of jump leads on board? Would the common negative (if present, as on Figaro) cause any trouble?

Cheers

[IslandAlchemy]

I'm with Mark on this. Just keep some jump leads on board.

[Marchi]

For avoiding dead batteries instalation of 10-50W solar cell with regulator is recomended. Cost, 30-100?.
And yes, jump leads on board is good idea! See Volvo manuals for wiring if necessary. It "saved my life" once.

[MarkTheBike]

Thanks for the info, Marchi. Yep, good point about the sparking. In principle, I like Salty's idea. No fussing about in the dark, wondering where the jumpleads were stashed after using them to take the dog for a walk having left his leash at home.

Cheers

[Salty]

Hi Sweetas and MarkTheBike,
The system fitted was apparently to comply with the surveyors request to have such system fitted in order for the boat to be certified for charter. I say apparently as I did not see anything written down regarding it, neither was there a specific point raised in the survey document. Anyway it seemed like a good idea, and having seen the results of some of the antics that charterers got up to, I can also see the point of having something, forgive me for saying this, that was idiot proof. As boat owners you will take care of your investment, and responsible charterers may do so but experience indicated that responsibility was rarely present and if they mess up and get hurt it becomes the boat owners problem. So jumper leads were out for the reasons raised by Marchi, and as batteries give off hydrogen gas during charging, it is a wise decision to minimise the risks from sparks. Fortunately hydrogen is lighter than air and so if you are lucky it should not normally accumulate within the bilge and battery storage areas provided they are satisfactorily ventilated. On my B36 2002 the battery locker has large cut outs in the tops of the locker side that supports the settee above, so some ventilation is possible.
As for a wiring diagram, I need to take another look later this week at the system that was fitted and will then draw it out and take some photos.

[Salty]

As promised, herewith the diagram of the additional wiring used to provide power from the leisure batteries for emergency engine starting.

On my boat, a Bavaria 36 from 2002 and used originally as a charter vessel, the leisure and engine start batteries all share a common negative line, so in this arrangement it was not necessary to provide an additional negative line or jumper lead. However, in regard to the positive line, the Leisure and Engine start batteries have separate positive lines, so it was required to provide an additional positive line that would remain isolated from the two sets of batteries until needed.
Two new positive lines were made up from Red coated cabling of the same thickness as the existing positive and negative battery leads, and these were done professionally with hydraulically crimped terminals at a nearby firm by the name of "Electroquest" who have been very helpful in all matters regarding batteries and associated cabling. The first line was taken from the positive terminal on the leisure battery furthest from the position where the new key switch was to be located and was attached to one of the switch terminals, while the second line was attached between the remaining unused switch terminal and the positive stud on the engine start battery. No other cables were needed as the existing wiring provided connection from there on to the starter motor solenoid.
After checking that the switch was in the off position the key for the switch was removed and was securely screwed to nearby woodwork under the settee base. The object here was to ensure that charterers did not fiddle with it and leave the connecting switch turned on by mistake and thereby allow both batteries to become flattened. Screwing the key to the woodwork meant that anyone using it would have to make a positive decision about its use before removing the key from its securing position rather than as the result of idle curiosity. Of course you must have onboard a toolkit with an appropriate screwdriver as a matter of necessity, but an alternative would be to mount a suitable screwdriver in a clip nearby, or whatever form of security you choose.
For clarity some of the existing wiring such as the charging leads and those leads from the batteries to the distribution board and to the engine have been omitted from the diagram below.

[Sweet As]

Thanks Salty. A very comprehensive and clear post.

[BillGiles]

I am not an electrician (being a mechanical engineer) but can I ask if it wise to connect the full domestic batteries into circuit with the dead engine battery? Would it not be better to use a double pole switch which would break the engine battery circuit and connect the doms battery set to the engine controls?

[Salty]

Hi BillGiles,

You have a point that I've often thought about and cannot answer except to point you in the direction of a similar situation when your car won't start. At that point along comes Mr Helpful Citizen in his car with a set of jumper leads which he connects between the battery on his car and the battery on yours, and your engine gets started. Essentially it's no different from the set up on my boat. If you call a garage, or your breakdown service, they will do the same thing. The important thing to remember is to break that temporary starting connection as soon as the engine has started, thereby allowing your alternator to recharge your engine start battery.

[tiger79]

I am not an electrician (being a mechanical engineer) but can I ask if it wise to connect the full domestic batteries into circuit with the dead engine battery? Would it not be better to use a double pole switch which would break the engine battery circuit and connect the doms battery set to the engine controls?

It would, and it's easily achieved by taking the feed from the new emergency switch to the engine side of the engine battery isolator.  Then, by switching the engine battery isolator off before activating the emergency switch, the domestic batteries are not connected to the dead starter battery.  If the engine battery isolator has a removable red handle, get an identical switch for the emergency use and only use one handle for both switches - then the battery switch has to be turned off before the handle can be removed and used on the emergency switch.

[Trundletruc]

In response to Tiger79. The problem with this arrangement is that when the engine starts the engine battery will not be getting any charge unless you switch off the house batteries and switch back onto the engine battery whilst the engine is running. There will then be a period when the alternator is not connected to anything! We are always told this could damage it?
We have a Bav36 (2002) with same set up as above.(bavaria factory set-up?) We had a flat engine battery last year and switched over, held wire and it did not get very warm. Cable is same size as starter cable.

[tiger79]

In response to Tiger79. The problem with this arrangement is that when the engine starts the engine battery will not be getting any charge unless you switch off the house batteries and switch back onto the engine battery whilst the engine is running. There will then be a period when the alternator is not connected to anything! We are always told this could damage it?
We have a Bav36 (2002) with same set up as above.(bavaria factory set-up?) We had a flat engine battery last year and switched over, held wire and it did not get very warm. Cable is same size as starter cable.

Not correct, the alternator output goes to a splitter which then feeds the various battery banks.  The alternator always has a load.