Antifouling or Ultrasonic?

[CRYSTAL]

Anyone out there using an Ultrasonic antifouling devices? Any feedback is will be appreciated.

found this product http://www.ultrasonic-antifouling.com/shop/ but is it worth paying £1000 if it is not effective? Currently it takes me about Eur300 for 2 coats of good quality paint. This means in 4 seasons, it'll break even but no in between cleaning underwater!!!

[Symphony]

Regularly comes up on YBW forums, particular;y MOBOs and general conclusion is a waste on money although one or two people seem happy.

Best alternative to normal antifoul is Coppercoat. More expensive - not necessarily the coating itself - but preparation and application. Best results follow blasting, epoxy and Coppercoat but likely to cost £3k or so for estimated life of 10 years. 

[CRYSTAL]

Tnx but I thought coppercoat was not recommended for those with saildrive.

I guess back to painting :-)

[geoff]

I've had coppercoat now for 11 years with saildrive,did it myself cost about £500 . Not bad but you need to scrub at least once a year to stay clean. That said 11years antifoul would have cost a fair bit. Geoff

[Symphony]

Tnx but I thought coppercoat was not recommended for those with saildrive.

I guess back to painting :-)

No problem with saildrive. Was looking at a 37 with it yesterday. Had been on for 2 years. Not very good on iron keel, but guess that depends on how ell it was prepared.

[cbsura]

Another alternative is an econea based paint which contains no metal. I have used Pettit Ultima Eco for the last 3 years with good results in Long Island Sound. I prepped my saildrive with Primocon the first year.


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[Salty]

Hi CRYSTAL,

I've just installed an NRG Ultrasonic Antifouling system, and have had it running since February 28 2015. The system consists of two transducers on my B36, one located under the floorboard in way of the bottom of the companionway, and the other inside the fore cabin under bunk locker at the aft end of that space. The aft transducer is mounted on the centre line, while the forward one is located on the port side, but as near as possible to the centreline. Power comes from two dedicated 110ah 12 volt batteries specifically installed to run the system and which are currently charged from a feed via a charge regulator from my wind generator. Having said that, the wind generator has had a problem for the last couple of weeks at least and has not provided any charge at all in that time, but the ultrasonic system has run continuously without yet discharging the batteries. Onboard yesterday the batteries were showing 12.2 volts, but I did not record the voltage at the start when the batteries were both brand new. One thing I was concerned about was whether the ultrasonic system would make any noise that might keep one awake at night, and up to now I've spent three nights onboard and have not heard the system at all. Indeed, I had wondered whether it was doing anything at all and the only possible evidence of something happening that had not occurred before installation is that when going onboard and operating the toilet pump, the usual flurry of incoming seaweed, marine fauna etc., has all disappeared. The boat has remained afloat throughout the winter and until the ultrasonics were installed had been a haven for everything that was going around. In a couple of weeks the boat will be hauled out for the hull to be pressure washed off and I will antifoul the underwater area using exactly the same coating as previously, so it will be another year before you have any definitive word on whether it works or not. Up to now the usual antifouling paint, Cruiser Uno, has not really been up to coping with the situation with the result that after five months the hull has been looking like a fur coat, and through the winter when the boat rarely moves the bottom begins to resemble a forest of weed.
More to follow in due course.

[tiger79]

On my old boat (a Hallberg-Rassy 352 with conventional shaft drive), I used Micron antifouling which lasted a full 2 years in the water without problems.  With my new Cruiser 37, being a saildrive, it'll probably have to be lifted once a year anyway to check/replace the anodes, so I'll continue to use Micron, but probably only 2 coats.  I take advantage of marina summer offers to lift out - much cheaper and the weather's better for working on the boat.  I can't see any financial sense in installing ultrasonic equipment.

[CRYSTAL]

Thanks Salty. Will be waiting anxiously for your results.

Tiger79, why not dive and check / replace the SD anode?

[tiger79]

Tiger79, why not dive and check / replace the SD anode?

My diving days are over!

[DT]

Hi all

Been considering this electronic anti fouling, early days sorry if asking too basic a question.

My go to boat guy says it is electronic field between to points, the website ultrasonic and everything else I have read is sound waves. If using sound waves why are there questions about galvanic problems.

is there two types?

[Salty]

Hi DT

There may be different systems out there, but the system I have has nothing at all to do with any electronic field between two points as such. Instead the transducers, although widely separated from each other, they are fitted in immediate and direct contact with the inside of the hull where the ultrasonic sound output from each transmits a sound wave through the hull causing an inaudible vibration throughout the hull. That vibration is apparently intolerable to the minute organisms such as Algae, that form the first level within the food chain upon which everything else lives. The transducers that I have fitted are electrically totally isolated from any other system fitted onboard save only from my wind, and soon to come solar generating system. To provide power to drive the transducers I have a separate storage system which at present consists of two 110 amp hour twelve volt batteries. The ultrasonic system controller has the facility to be driven from a marina or other supply of mains electricity instead of from a battery, but I have not used and do not intend to use shore power as a regular thing where for much of the year the boat is kept on a swinging mooring, and hence the wind and solar generators to keep all of my battery systems charged.
The galvanic problems that you refer to have often been attributed to incorrectly wired marina power supplies, and or, incorrectly wired mains circuits onboard and hence part of the reason why I have tried to steer clear of their use and to keep my boat entirely independent of shore power.
As with most systems it is helpful, arguably better, to read the manufacturers explanation of how individual systems work and authorititave test reports such as, for example, that published in the January 2015 issue of Practical Boat Owner.

[DT]

Thanks Salty
I have read most of the literature and I agree with you.
There are a few yachts in my marina that have applied this system and it seems to work , not a complete system but certainly helps.

I think I will install one, next comes the decision which system to install . certainly two transducers for my B34.

This one is by far the cheapest I have seen, for info, but only one transducer.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/Kits%2C-Science-%26-Learning/Electronic-Project-Kits/General-Household/Ultrasonic-Antifouling-Kit-for-Boats/p/KC5498
 

[Salty]

Good luck with it DT. I'm not averse to building electronic devices, or many other things, but on this occasion I wanted to be sure that what was fitted was going to work as intended, and so a DIY project was out of the question. It might have added another variable into the list of possibilities as to why things might not have worked as intended. Of course there are those that will say it won't work, waste of money, etc., but unless it is tried and properly tested while keeping an open mind on the possibilities, nothing will be gained from the technology. And that reminds me, I must get my parachute checked out just in case I reach the edge of our flat earth one day while out sailing and fall off.

[MarkTheBike]

Wouldn't the gravity just whip you round onto the underside and pull you back to the middle...? Oh, I see. The parachute is to slow you down, like a plane recovery system. Forward planning, very impressive.

[DT]

I asked the salesman the same question , "if I build it, how will I know its working" , ask a passing fish? 
Surely if I just play the yachts stereo system using some questionable music, Flock of Seagulls from the 80's came to mind, should be enough to ward off any self respecting barnacle.
Flat earth style conundrums , if the sun explodes what will happen to earth , will we be evaporated or spin of tangentially to the orbit as the gravity is no longer. Great party killer question.

[tiger79]

I think that there's a developing consensus opinion that ultrasonic probably works to extend the life of conventional antifouling, rather than working effectively on its own.  If you look at the cost of ultrasonic - and the need to power it 24/7 - the savings on conventional antifouling aren't great especially as many owners want to liftout at least every couple of years for anodes, hull polishing, etc.

[Salty]

Ref Posting No. 6.
"One thing I was concerned about was whether the ultrasonic system would make any noise that might keep one awake at night, and up to now I've spent three nights onboard and have not heard the system at all."

Onboard the, other night, the wind dropped from around a force 4, and the sea became almost dead flat calm with just the occasional wave slapping against the under side of the hull aft. While awake listening to just how quiet the night had turned, I became aware of a very faint buzzing sound every six or seven seconds which coincided with the flashing LED light sequence visible on the control box for the ultrasonic antifouling system. The buzz was that faint that not only did I have to listen very carefully to hear it, but it was not even loud enough to register on the sound meter app on my iPad.
At the time, background noise was recorded at around 35dB, except for the occasional slap of a wave against the hull which resulted in a peak noise value of around 45dB. As for keeping me awake, the curiosity might have done if I'd not been able to associate the sound with anything occurring onboard, but having identified the cause of the sound I went back to sleep without any bother. So no, although it does make some sound, it's not noisy by any stretch of the imagination.

[Salty]

It's now over a month and a half since my boat was returned to the water following lift out over one weekend early in May. During that weekend all of the fouling that had occurred prior to fitting the ultrasonic system was cleaned off, and two coats of conventional antifouling was applied before the boat was relaunched. The photos below show the extent of fouling over one year from May 2014 through to the 8th of May 2015. Usually once the boat was returned to its mooring, the first sign of problems would be that the Raymarine speed log would become fouled. This hasn't happened so far, and out of curiosity I pulled the transducer last week while onboard. It was spotlessly clean. Transducer noise has changed from the faint buzz heard at my last report to a very faint click.
On a slightly different tack, I've temporarily fitted a one hundred watt solar PV panel to keep my batteries topped up, while the wind generator has been left secured between visits. The PV panel has provided all current needed to keep the boats domestic batteries (280 amp hours total) and the separate batteries for the ultrasonic antifouling (220 amp hours total) fully topped up despite that the ultrasonic system is in continuous use.
On a further point, I mentioned that the Ultrasonic system control box had LED lights which flashed in a sequence. These lights are quite bright, such that I was concerned when fitting the system that the lights might be something of a nuisance at night. In order to minimise their impact during the hours of darkness, the control panel was fitted behind the port side settee back but where, provided you are sat in exactly the right position, they can just be seen from the starboard side settee (B36 three sleeping cabin version). There is a tiny gap between the port side back rest and an adjacent cushion which provides a peep hole through which the LED can just be seen. This saves pulling the back rest up just to check the system is working, but stops the main cabin from resembling some questionable down town area at night during peak business hours !!

[MarkTheBike]

Wow, Salty, where are you parked normally and which A/F do you use? I use Cruiser Uno (2 coats) and after 18mths in a locked marina with no tidal flow, I had a thin coat of slime only. Looks almost like you should send your boat to a hairdresser for a short back and sides...! Looking forward to seeing the results after a year of using the ultrasonic.

[Salty]

Hi Mark,
Since the date I bought the boat until now I've continued to use the same antifouling as was used by the previous owner, namely Cruiser Uno, same as you use. However the location where the boat is kept has changed from the west coast of Scotland, near to Oban, where the hull remained pretty clean, to  north west Wales, Holyhead, where the extent of fouling is pretty grim. I've asked around other boat owners here to find out what antifouling they use, but there is no real consensus of opinion on which is best for this area with many opting for the cheapest available as nothing particularly seems to work.
In actual fact this year the extent of fouling was arguably less than last year, and this may be down to having had the ultrasonic system working for a little over two months before the boat was lifted out, but let's wait and see what it's like next time the boat is lifted.
The plus points for Holyhead are that its much nearer to home than Scotland was, there are no restrictions such as lock gates etc., on when you can enter or leave, and a sailing club mooring for the season April to October inclusive costs me under a grand inclusive of a club launch to get you to or from your mooring. The down sides are the fouling, and it can sometimes get quite breezy.

[MarkTheBike]

Hi Salty

If it's of any interest, July's PBO (p70) says that they are doing a Round Britain test of many different A/F makes (about 10) to see which products suit the various areas. The places are - Chichester, Hamble, Poole, Plymouth, Milford Haven, Menai Straits, N & S banks of the Clyde, Oban, Firth of Forth, Whitby, Lowestoft, Deben and Crouch, and the results will be published in January. Don't paint your bottoms until then, I'd say.

Cheers