Author Topic: Whitlock steering squeak (Read 7370 times)

SYJetzt · « **Reply #25 on:** June 07 2022, 21:22 »

The lip seal should be in the upper end of your rubber tube, where the big jubilee clip sits. You get it from jefa as well. If ordering from jefa, i would go with a new top nut as well, if the old one doesn't come off and needs to be cut in parts.

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #26 on:** June 08 2022, 18:30 »

Question: After washing around the top of the rudder, I note water gets down the rudder stock. Is there any way I can seal the TOP of the rudder? Doesn't seem great crud can get down here....

Thank you SYJetzt, ah you mean this thing!

I've ordered that too. They have next dayed the whole lot to me to arrive tomorrow.

I went down to the boat today and cracked all the fastenings on the quadrant and hurrah, they all turn! The one I was worried about I put PlusGas on left it, went below and did some work, came up and used by impact driver on it, and it started undoing, so we are good.

Yngmar · « **Reply #27 on:** June 08 2022, 20:07 »

Isn't there a cover on the top bearing?

Ours has a great big stainless steel dome that screws over it all. I call it the emergency teacup

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #28 on:** June 08 2022, 20:46 »

I have no emergency teacup!! I need one! I’ve also asked Jefa to see what they suggest. With a terrible realisation today it dawned on me I need to remove the sails before the yard will lift me.

Another two hours gone

. Lift out next Thursday...

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #29 on:** June 09 2022, 08:54 »

I have the below from Jefa:

Dear Mark,

We encountered owners, who set a cover above the bearing, to avoid ingress of water.
This part is not available at JEFA.

Med venlig hilsen / Best regards

Gabriella Stuhler

Jefa were amazing, great service indeed, very happy. Now where does one buy the emergency teacup...?

Yngmar · « **Reply #30 on:** June 09 2022, 10:23 »

This is the stainless teacup version on the 40 Ocean. I guess if your fitting doesn't have the threaded section below the plastic washers, you'll have to come up with something else.

Excuse the dirt, at anchor and no water to wash the salty boat

Mirror45184 · « **Reply #31 on:** June 09 2022, 13:40 »

The original problem may have been caused by the aluminum lower bearing housing corroding and swelling and deforming the lower rudder bearing. Had this occur on a Beneteau First 40 when only 5 years old. The cause was painting the copper antifouling right up to and on the aluminum housing. I now use a ring of copper free antifouling (same stuff used on the sail drive) around the rudder bearing.
Cheers

symphony2 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 09 2022, 18:14 »

Don't recall ever seeing such a cover on an aft cockpit boat because the head of the stock is recessed into the floor moulding and a flap cover over it. so, think that is unique to the Ocean models.

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #33 on:** June 10 2022, 08:32 »

I guess on my Bav 40, as the top of the stock is usually covered by the steering seat, little rain should get down there... I'll save that battle for another day, as I can't find a suitable teacup!

All the parts have arrived from Jefa, so a great result from them. They were wonderfully helpful. I have the correct tool for getting the nut off to limit the chance I'll need to chop the top nut off. Looking at it, I'd be surprised if I need to destroy it. It is aluminum on aluminum, so that is good for a start, and if I needed to I could take a blow torch to it with great effect I think.

The next step is to fathom a kind of lifting platform so I can easily hoist and lower the rudder in a controlled way from a winch...

Step 1 is to drill the M6 hole (that is very shallow in the top of the stock) to M8 I think and make it perhaps 30mm deep to give enough bite. Then get an M8 eyebolt to put in there.
Step 2 is to create a platform that spans the aft seats and is high enough that I can attach a block to it so that a line can be taken from it, to a winch... hmm. It'll need to be able to be lashed down to keep it secure.

SYJetzt · « **Reply #34 on:** June 10 2022, 12:40 »

We removed our rudder using a forklift with an euro pallet on the fork beneath the rudder blade. Lifted the pallet to 1cm beneath the rudder. In our case we had to force the rudder to come out using a mallet and a piece of wood between. It was a pain to get the rudder out.
As the rudder stock moved, we lowered the fork lift piece by piece to control the lowering of the rudder.
The job was done as the boat was hanging on the lifting belts of the travel lift and was lifted to the highest level, which the travel lift could achieve, as the rudder stock was long and needed the place to the ground to come out. Worth to check in advance!
I would not go with an eyepad on top of rudder stock, as this eyepad and the attached gear will prevent to use gear to break the joint between rudder stock to release it. Once the rudder is loose, it will fall down, if not properly supported due to its weight.

symphony2 · « **Reply #35 on:** June 10 2022, 13:47 »

Eye bolt will work if you use a wire strop up to the lifting gear.

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #36 on:** June 10 2022, 15:05 »

Thank you all, I shouldn't need a wire strop as the keel should only weigh 50kgs or so I reckon, so standard braid on braid (old main halyard!) should do it. The smallest bearing "hole" (the top one) is big enough for a bowline to fit through comfortably.

I'm going to fashion something like the below in the bat cave out of scraps tonight.

The green blobs are a couple of blocks - The wheel will need to come off, then I think I'll need to go up to the end of the boom to get the height I need before coming down to a winch somewhere. I'll put eyebolts on the two "legs" that I'll use to get some height from the seating platform, and use those eye bolts to secure it down and back, and down and forward to the pushpit to keep it in place as the winching takes place...

...There is a significant chance I am overthinking it.

Underneath I'll bring my massive trolly jack (I, alas, have no forklift truck) and put blocks on top of that to allow for gentle lowering of the rudder as it comes free.

SYJetzt · « **Reply #37 on:** June 11 2022, 16:13 »

I would suspect your rudder won't go down without applying force on the rudder shaft on top. Depending how much your present bearings are swollen, you might use a lot of "brute" force on the suggested eyebolt.

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #38 on:** June 13 2022, 07:52 »

Question: Are there any torque settings for putting any of these fastenings back on? Or just torque suitable for their size? Does anything need threadlocker applied? I was going to apply anti-galling to any ss fastenings into aluminum.

Update:

Quote from: SYJetzt on June 11 2022, 16:13

I would suspect your rudder won't go down without applying force on the rudder shaft on top. Depending how much your present bearings are swollen, you might use a lot of "brute" force on the suggested eyebolt.

Indeed, I am expecting to apply rather a lot of downwards force. I have a club hammer and some softwood to protect the top of the stock. I'll only apply the lifting eye once the rudder is free.

My eldest girl and I made a little gantry out of scraps to put a block on to so I have a means of hoisting the rudder up:

And here is the nearly finished article. I need to fettle it a bit, however, it is nearly there. This gets led forwards to a sheet winch.

The top of the stock was drilled and tapped to M8.

And I tested to make sure my little nut tool would fit, which it does.

Now just to get the sails off tomorrow ready for lift OUT on Thursday to get the job done, and back IN on Friday... so long as I can get the old bearing out...

Yngmar · « **Reply #39 on:** June 13 2022, 09:56 »

Quote from: MagicalArmchair on June 13 2022, 07:52

Question: Are there any torque settings for putting any of these fastenings back on? Or just torque suitable for their size? Does anything need threadlocker applied? I was going to apply anti-galling to any ss fastenings into aluminum.

No torque settings I know of. Nothing that needs a lot. I put a tiny dab of medium threadlocker on the top nut locking screw (the one that squeezes the slit together) because it did loosen a bit over time. No problems since and wasn't critical. Putting anti-galling is a good idea. I also put it on the aluminium quadrant where it rests against the SS post, but I think your post is aluminium too. Nonetheless good idea to avoid moisture ingress between them.

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #40 on:** June 14 2022, 13:15 »

Thank you. Finally, did you take off your rudder cables when you disconnected the quadrant? Or can you get away with leaving the cables on and just dropping the quadrant off the stock? It's only five minutes to take the cables off, however, I have rather a lot to do in not a lot of time

.

Sails sadly off the spars, all ready for lifting on Thursday...

Yngmar · « **Reply #41 on:** June 14 2022, 20:11 »

I took them off, because I wanted to remove the quadrant for refurbishing. You can leave them on though and just push it back into the frame a little bit, shouldn't make any trouble.

Or take them off before and use the emergency tiller to move into the travelift

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #42 on:** June 15 2022, 10:47 »

Quote from: Yngmar on June 14 2022, 20:11

I took them off, because I wanted to remove the quadrant for refurbishing. You can leave them on though and just push it back into the frame a little bit, shouldn't make any trouble.

Or take them off before and use the emergency tiller to move into the travelift

Thanks! I'll try and leave the cables on in that case. I won't try maneuvering with the tiller on - I've only just got used to using the wheel instead of a tiller on my old boat so there is a significant chance I'll crash into something

. Tomorrow is the big day, and then back in on Friday. £500 of lifting later I'll be back in and significantly poorer...

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #43 on:** June 16 2022, 21:34 »

Boat lifted today and the rudder removed. It took quite some hammering to get the stock to drop and when it did start to move, the bearings just disintegrated. Note, they are the new type!!

I thought it was us that had broken the bearings through hammering them out, however, note some of the the break line is dirty and old. I think the bearing has been busted for some time. The forces of the corrosion had literally crushed the bearing. The remains of the bearing (with the rollers now all fallen out) required careful chiseling out. I used a Dremel and a Fein to cut relief cuts (carefully!) into the bearing and then chiseled it out.

And then we see the corrosion that murdered the bearing:

I cleaned it up, got rid of any copper based antifouling anywhere near, and then filled any holes with epoxy and painted with Trilux.

I've swapped the top bearing over, I just haven't had the courage to insert the bottom bearing just year...

That is tomorrows job. Just need to put it all back together now and launch tomorrow.

Thanks for all the help and advice again.

symphony2 · « **Reply #44 on:** June 17 2022, 11:25 »

Don't forget to remove all that copper based AF from the casting and back 10mm on the hull and redo with Trilux.

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #45 on:** June 20 2022, 07:30 »

Thanks Symphony, yup, I completed that exercise.

After nearly following in the illustrious footsteps of Yngmar and getting the bottom bearing stuck and having a not-so-mild panic (note to all that follow, if the housing feels smooth enough, and looks smooth enough, it probably isn't!), we are ready again to launch.

The hoist was great and made lifting the keel a doddle, and locating it a breeze.

Hoist all set up:

Old halyard passing through the lazerette:

And finally, ta da, all done.

Another thing to note to other Bav 40s that pass this way, is there is plenty of clearance under the boat to drop the rudder without requiring a further boost upwards, so that should be one less thing to think about.

I launch again tomorrow as it was a bit breezy on Friday to pop her back. All the quadrant etc is reattached.

Thanks for all of the assistance - I certainly wouldn't have had the courage or knowledge to undertake the job on my own.

Yngmar · « **Reply #46 on:** June 20 2022, 08:23 »

Well done! Glad you didn't get the bearing stuck, that wasn't the most fun part