Rudder Removal & bearings replace part 1 -see part 2

[Gardan]

Bavaria 38 year 1999.
Hi I’m having a nightmare trying to get my Rudder to drop it seems locked in solid .
My steering has become very stiff . I was advised to change my rudder bearings I ordered top and bottom bearing and a new splash gaitor from Jeffa , great price and next day delivery to UK. Although I did have to pay an extra £80 import tax on the bottom rudder , but still cheaper than uk quotes and the three weeks to deliver . I digress sorry . I have dropped my auto pilot arm which took 1.45mins with blow torch to remove 4 siezed Allen key nuts . Then it took another 3 hrs to undo the Allen key nuts on the upper steering . For this set we used and extended Allen key about 9 inches long and with a rubber on to get a grip , a must investment iMO for this job . The top splash gaitor was completely failed , glad I spotted it now before any proper sailing , you can inspect this and I recommend you do.
Now I have everything off we spent 3 hrs today bashing and pulling the rudder to try and get it to drop ? Not a Mm did she move . Am I missing a secret screw or something that’s keeping it locked right ? We had to abandon the removal as I was concerned we might damage the rudder shaft if we kept bashing it. Can anyone help ?

[symphony2]

You may find this useful youtube.com/watch?v=9upUBC2tu1c
As he says at the beginning brute force may be needed to get the rudder out because the bearing is pushed against the shaft by the corrosion in the aluminium housing.

Note, however the bearing is not teflon but acetal. Ignore what he says about adding an anode. This is not required and the way he did it will not have any effect on either the housing or the stock. The electrolysis is from the copper in the antifoul covering the aluminium housing. The recommendation from Bavaria and Jefa is to use a non copper AF such as Trilux for a 100mm band around the housing. This is not necessary if the bottom is coated in Coppercoat as the copper is in epoxy and will not cause electrolysis.

Good luck with shifting the rudder. Make sure the boat is well supported.

[Gardan]

Morning Sym2 , thank you for the link , however it doesn’t seem to work , can you repost it or give me the title of the you tube video please . I’d be interested in this approach as we are paranoid that we are missing something, or if we take the ‘Tools Fine Adjusting’ Sledge Hammer that we may damage the top of the rudder or something else as we smash downwards . As an added note ,  also someone commented that in an effort to free the top bearing initially when we started to work on releasing the steering , we removed the top nut and washer from the top deck and fire in 3 in one oil and wd40. Someone said this May of been a bad mistake and expanded the top bearing even more ? We can confirm that the top bearing os locked onto the rudder shaft and turns with the shaft locked on when we turn the rudder. That link could be really useful if someone has videoed a similar situation . Thanks in advance .

[Gardan]

I managed to get the link working thanks , has anyone else taken a sledge hammer to the top of the rudder to free it from siezed bearings ? I imagine you would need to use a wooden block so as not to damage the top of the rudder and yachtgrot in the YouTube video mentions accrows to support the hull. Shame he didn’t show any actual blows of the sledge hammer to the rudder . Not feeling 100% confident to take such extreme measures to get the rudder to drop . Has anyone else had similar issues ? Btw I have been recommended using Tef-Gel anti sieze lubricant to put on my biatch of bolts x 9 on the two units that took on average 20/30 mins each to get free . It’s £25 a pop for a tiny tube but I’m not doing that again in the confides of the back of the boat .
Anyone else had this siezed bearings experience, love to hear how you got the rudder to drop .
Thanks

[symphony2]

Google Bavaria rudder bearing replacement and you will get a number of links. However that one does not say much about removing the rudder other than it required a lot of force. Other links may have more on the subject. Sorry can't be more help, but as far as I know once you have the quadrant off there is nothing else to remove, but have never actually done the job myself.

[Yngmar]

Sounds like both your bearing balls are seized around the rudder shaft and turning in the housing. Their toroid shape will not allow them to drop out of the housing that way, so you will need considerable downward force to force them out of the seized bearings. Access probably prohibits any sort of relief cuts or holes to be made in the bearing ball - no choice but to bang on the top until it comes out.

Obviously everything needs to be removed from the rudder shaft first (steering quadrant, autopilot tiller arm and rudder position sensor in most cases). Then you bang on the top, with a sturdy piece of wood to protect the shaft top from the hammer.

The oil can swell up acetal, so you may have made it harder on yourself with that. Nothing to be done about it now. On some boats the top bearing housing can be unbolted, but since it comes out from the top, not the bottom, that wouldn't help you very much either.

So just apply sufficient force and fix whatever breaks (if anything) later - it needs to come out!

[tckearney]

I seem to remeber that there is a key in the shaft behind the quadrant.  Ill look again tomorrow when I am at the boat again.   Mine came out easy while in the lifting sling, It does have to be high up though.    A little tip.  I tapped a thread into the top of the rudder shaft  then put an eye in it so I could easly lift it back in from above, with a rope down through the bearing.   Im had davits so it was really easy. 

[Gardan]

Hi All thanks for your replies and support , I have removed all the auto arm and steering clamps , I’ve also been searching quite a bit for rudder siezed and such like that linked video you gave me is the nearest I can get to explaining ‘considerable force’ with a sledge hammer is needed . I’m tending to think I just need to man up and give it a go! I might just start another thread with sledge hammer in the tittle to see if that grabs anyone’s attention before attempting it on Monday .
If you . If you could check TCK about the key you mentioned that would be great , are you suggesting there may be a locking key behind the quadrant ? We did have a good nose yesterday on the shaft for something that could be obstructing the fall off the rudder .

[GeoffV]

I think it may be prudent to work up to the force required with the sledge hammer rather than go hell for leather from the off.

Good luck.

[Gardan]

Hi Geoff yes good advice , I’m not keen to use the big fella , however we did spend a good hour with a lump hammer and then a heavy lump hammer three or four sessions at few minutes each time and it never budged a mm . Not a smidge

[Mirror45184]

Why not try completely unbolting the top housing and using a standard 3 leg puller to pull the top housing and bearing off. That will at least remove one stuck bearing.

[Gardan]

Why not try completely unbolting the top housing and using a standard 3 leg puller to pull the top housing and bearing off. That will at least remove one stuck bearing.

Tried this . and we put so much pressure on the top hat whilst pulling up we feared it would distort or snap the top hat housing . It was simply jammed solid!! The only choice left was to drill the bearing from below IMO

See the other thread I am doing for th edamage we caused to the Top hat bty drilling its called 'Siezed Rudder Bearings'