Shaking out a reef

[Cabtrack]

There is probably something already about this but I shall ask anyway. Does any body have a problem with shaking out a reef and not being able to get the main back up as there is to much friction in the reefing system. Very annoying. Any answers to the issue.

[Lazy Pelican]

I have exactly the same problem on our B39. Would be delighted to hear a practical solution!

[AB1707]

Hi,
Just wanted to check your system for reefing. This maybe your system already if so discount this post. Obviously if you're reefing to reduce sail then the order. Release the kicker, put the topping lift on, drop the main to beyond the reefing point. Get the luff and leach reefing lines on tight, winch up the main, take the topping lift off, put the kicker on and sail away.
If you follow this system hopefully it will help. You need to take the pressure off the main with the topping lift (on) and the kicker (off)
Hope this helps
Adam

[IslandAlchemy]

Assuming you have the Selden single line reefing system, things that can help are:-

1./ Reducing the diameter of the reefing lines - if you go down a diameter and change to dyneema, you reduce the friction in the system by quite a lot.  Also, make sure that all the blocks in the system (including the ones inside the boom are running free.

2./ Make sure that the reefing lines can run free through the clutches.  Lay them out so that there are no twists or kinks.

3./ Buy yourself a Winchrite electric handle.  It takes all the effort out of pulling the sail back up.

[Jake]

I have yet to rig the Selden single line reefing system aboard my Bav 44.  It seems pretty simple to use, but do most people keep the reefing lines attached to the main all the time?  All that extra line seems like it would be in the way when you lower the main.  I definitely need to get my boat out in some nice weather and have my crew practice with it.  Once you need to reef is not the time to start learning.

Jake

[Salty]

Assuming you have the Selden single line reefing system, things that can help are:-

1./ ................Also, make sure that all the blocks in the system (including the ones inside the boom are running free.

2./ ..

3./ ..

As Island Alchemy says, check that the blocks inside the boom are running free, as on my B36(2002) I noticed that they tended to jam up if the blocks reached the aft end inside of the boom. This was something I discovered shortly after buying the boat secondhand in 2010. Freeing the jammed blocks meant taking the aft end fitting off the boom, and readjusting the the position of the blocks manually and with a bit of careful and gentle persuasion. If you do need to extract one of the blocks out of the aft end of the boom, be very aware that the nylon rollers, upon which the blocks travel, which are white in colour and a little smaller than a “Sharps Extra Strong Mint” sweet are not secured in place. They can drop out, bounce extremely well, and do not float !!!   

No prizes for guessing how I discovered they didn’t float. Back in 2010/2011 Seldon required around £3 to £4 for each replacement roller, plus postage. Re-adjusting the reefing lines to ensure that those blocks would not need to travel to the aft end of the boom cured the problem, and marking the reefing lines so that they were always the same length where they were attached to the luff or around the boom helped too.

[Rampage]

To add to the advice already here.  I found that the lines fitted when we bought the oat were 2mm thicker than called for,by Seldom in their manual, so we dropped from 12mm to 10mm lines.  That removed a large whack of friction such that whilst you can’t simply pull the reef out by hand, it’s not much effort to winch it up.
If for some reason you need to get the main back up quickly, it’s worth getting someone to the mast and pulling the lines through the boom. If you drop the main with the reefs in, it’s well worth pulling the lines through before rehoisting.
As to keeping the lines rigged, they’re such a pain to get right we do it once a season when we bend the sail on for the first time after the winter layup. Yes there’s lots of line about the after end of the sail but it’s not in the way when the sails up and it tucks away into the stack pack without causing any problems.

[Smeaks]

work from the end of the boom when shaking the reef out ensure that the brake is wide open and the line free to run when you start to haul the halyard manually pull slack on the reefing lines out of the end of the boom watching the free end of the reefing line and stop when the free end approaches the bake. The halyard will now whiz up and there wont be any reef tension 

[Markus]

I have yet to see a single line reefing system which is a joy to use when shaking out a reef.  Just too many (low quality) blocks and usually too thick lines.

I have pretty seriously contemplated converting to a double line reefing system which is so much better in terms of friction but of course requires more clutches... 

[Mirror45184]

Hi
Suggest that servicing the sliding blocks in the boom would help to reduce the friction and ease of raising the main. I will need to put that on my to do list too!
Smaller reefing lines will also g a long way to making it easier.
Markus, if you are considering going to single line reefing suggest that you use hooks at the gooseneck for the tack end. no new clutches required then, but you do need to scramble up to the mast to pull the reef in!
Cheers

[Markus]

Hi
Suggest that servicing the sliding blocks in the boom would help to reduce the friction and ease of raising the main. I will need to put that on my to do list too!
Smaller reefing lines will also g a long way to making it easier.
Markus, if you are considering going to single line reefing suggest that you use hooks at the gooseneck for the tack end. no new clutches required then, but you do need to scramble up to the mast to pull the reef in!
Cheers

I have not had a chance to try reefing a brand new boat, but with boats of only a few years old the friction has been there already. So I tend to think it's just pretty much inherent to the system - there's just so many blocks and turns for the ropes causing friction. I have never fully understood the reasoning for single line system over double line system: you basically save one clutch per reef and have to put a lot of stuff inside the boom in an area that is difficult to access/service. Sure, when taking in a reef with a double line system, you have one more line to winch up. But the small additional effort is more than compensated with much easier shaking out a reef plus the possibility to adjust tack & clew tension separately. And of course the boom length not dictating the depths of the reefs...

Personally I prefer to be able to reef from the cockpit without having to go forward to hook up the cringle, so I believe for me a double line system would be the only way to improve. But it's not high on my to do list as the single line system works as good as it has on any boat I have sailed...

[Laysula]

Prior to owning our Bavaria we had a Hanse 301 with single line reefing, and yes we found it hard work to shake out a reef. A couple of years ago we delivered a different 301 to Chichester. This one had two line reefing and the difference was amazing. Yes there were more lines and clutches but had I known the difference I would have done it to my own when I had it.

[Markus]

Prior to owning our Bavaria we had a Hanse 301 with single line reefing, and yes we found it hard work to shake out a reef. A couple of years ago we delivered a different 301 to Chichester. This one had two line reefing and the difference was amazing. Yes there were more lines and clutches but had I known the difference I would have done it to my own when I had it.

Yes, I do not know of any manufacturer that would fit a double line reefing system as standard. But having used such systems, it is pure joy compared to single-line reefing... 

[IslandAlchemy]

I have yet to see a single line reefing system which is a joy to use when shaking out a reef.  Just too many (low quality) blocks and usually too thick lines.

Not had any problem with ours, and find it easy to use (can easily do it on my own on a 49).  It's just a case of keeping everything running properly and not having rope that is too thick or too old.

[HappyAfloat]

I have yet to see a single line reefing system which is a joy to use when shaking out a reef.  Just too many (low quality) blocks and usually too thick lines.

Not had any problem with ours, and find it easy to use (can easily do it on my own on a 49).  It's just a case of keeping everything running properly and not having rope that is too thick or too old.

Out of interest what's the thickness of your lines?

[Lazy Pelican]

Our reefing lines are 12mm double braid polyester and are a pig to use. I recently read an article by Tom Cunliffe suggesting I could change to 8mm dyneema- has anyone experience of going down 2 sizes?

[Markus]

Our reefing lines are 12mm double braid polyester and are a pig to use. I recently read an article by Tom Cunliffe suggesting I could change to 8mm dyneema- has anyone experience of going down 2 sizes?

8 mm dyneema is for sure strong enough but the clutches will probably struggle if they are for 12 mm lines - better check the holding power first from the manual.

[Rampage]

Our reefing lines are 12mm double braid polyester and are a pig to use. I recently read an article by Tom Cunliffe suggesting I could change to 8mm dyneema- has anyone experience of going down 2 sizes?

Our reefing lines were 12mm but reading the Seldon online manual it appeared that the lines should actually be 10mm.  Changed down to that and made life much easier. I did look at going down to 8mm dynemma but didn’t go that way once I worked out how much it was going to cost....