Bv 33 cruiser. Max passengers

[Fernicho]

Hi all. I want to increase  the max permited passengers in my boat to 8-10 for C-D navigation area. I asked to Bavaria and they told me that´s not possible to modify the CE certificate. I need a new one (€€€€€).  After that, in Spain, the only way to change  the max passengers is to provide a navigation certificate with 8-10 passengers. Someone has one for Bv 33 cruiser??? Regards

[Symphony]

Don't know what you mean by a "navigation certificate", nor why anybody would want to carry more than 8 people on a B33!

Bavaria is right. Your country uses the RCD certification as a basis for issuing commercial passenger licences, even though it was never intended for this purpose. If you want a new CE then you will have to pay for the individual boat to be certified, and even if you could find any organisation to do it the cost would be high - several thousands as all the calculations would need to be done again. Anyway, I doubt that moving into Cat C would result in increasing the maximum capacity in terms of people - the category rating is not linear in the sense that moving to a lower category automatically increases the payload. The reason it changes from A to B is because the higher permitted payload reduces the stability so that the boat no longer meets the stability requirements for A, although other factors such as space above and below deck still meet the requirements for 8 rather than 6. However they would be inadequate for more than 8.

Sensible countries like the UK have specific rules for commercial passenger carrying capacity that are different from the RCD, simply because the RCD is not aimed at commercial use, but as an indicator to private consumers of the capabilty of the boat for their type of sailing.

[Fernicho]

Thanks. Part of the documentation to carry on board is the navigation certificate that accredits, after review every 5 years by an independent body, that the boat is fit to navigate. The inspector who have made a recent revisión told me that, like other similar models, it can be increased to 8-10 forC-D  navigation area, but the Spanish administration is the one that causes problems. That is why I need a navigation certificate (or CE)  that it is suitable for 8 or 10 persons
Regards

[Symphony]

The "navigation certificate" sounds like a regular 5 year surveyor's report. Suggest the inspector does not know what he is talking about. As i said, the CE certification is nothing to do with commercial use - just that your government (along with others such as Portugal) use it in this way because it is easier than developing their own certification for commercial vessels. The C/D categories are also nothing directly to do with the number of passengers, only the suggested areas of use defined by wave height and wind speed expected.

[Fernicho]

Symphony, I´m agree with you but the administration does not modify the number of passengers if the shipyard does not accredit it or another official document

[Symphony]

I know - but what I am saying is that Bavaria will not do it, neither I suspect will any other certifying body. The boat is not suitable for 10 passengers in commercial use.

[Fernicho]

We are aprovide a certificate of the same model for more people.gree. The cheapest option in Spain is to provide a certificate of the same model for more people. Mine boat it´s from 2005. Look a 2006 boat

[Symphony]

That is a completely different boat, a C33 from 2011-2017 (and now called a "34"). I have one (from 2015) and it is indeed certified for 10 people for Cat B, in just the same way that your boat is certified for 8 people in Cat B. This capacity comes from a calculation of the stability of the boat with different payloads and the volume of the boat. Although called a "33" the later boat is a substantially "bigger" boat than yours with a longer waterline and greater beam aft, hence being able to carry a higher payload and still maintain the required stability. So, there is nothing on that certificate that is anything different from the information on the Certificate of Conformity provided in the handbook or the CE plate in the cockpit. So, even if you could get a certificate like that for your boat it would still say a maximum of 8 passengers.

Just out of interest, if I wanted to use my boat commercially in the UK, I expect it would be limited to 6 crew - that is the maximum for Cat A, even for use in coastal waters.

[artemis]

I've a Bavaria 34C 2001, I cannot imagine having 8 to10 persons onboard let alone attempting trying to teach them seamanship.

Mike
Artemis

 

[Fernicho]

Jajaja Artemis. I´m agree. I always go alone, but if in summer I want to go sailing (or food, beer) with friends ... don't be limited to 6.
They don't come to teach them to navigate.
Regards

[semaphore]

Is this something the authorities enforce? They see people on your boat, check the CE rating, and give you a citation and fine for being over?

[Fernicho]

Ufffff . Do  not hesitate.
1500€ for having expired flares. 3000€ for each extra passenger.
And they are light penalties. 1200 to 6000€ each

[dmfranch]

Let's sugest Fernicho to use legal matters with a Lawyer and leave this place for solving mechanical problems with the help of the community.