Keel bolt query J&J Bavaria 32 2002

[ICENI]

Over the past week I have done the initial passage from Cornwall to my swinging mooring in Suffolk.   I had the boat surveyed initially prior to purchase and was pleased with the surveyors report.   The boat, although eighteen years old seems in good condition and I inspected the keel/hull joint prior to even getting the boat surveyed.   Viewing the seal between hull and keel it looked pretty good no rust at tghe joint.

The passage went OK but there seemed to be a problem with the fresh water tank which is another issue.   I drained the tank and set sail.

Although the water tank was empty and we managed with several 10 litre water containers, water ingressed into the bilges. 

Upon getting to my mooring I found to my horror that the water in the bilges was coming from the keelbolts.   It was not a massive amount but nevertheless water was getting into the bilges.

I had arranged for my partner to collect us from Suffolk and before leaving the boat, I cleaned around the keelbolt washers with Isopropyl alcohol and when the alcohol ad evaporated I applied silicone sealant around each of the keelbolt/hull joints.   There did not appear to be any more seepage but I left before the sealant had fully set.

I informed the harbourmaster of this and I am sure he will keep an eye on the boat and he has my mobile telephone number.

I am revisiting the boat on Thursday and hope to get her alongside at high water.

The service batteries were not in good condition so I have ordered two 140ah batteries which should arrive on Wednesday.

When at the boat, I will install the batteries and also a float switch to the electric bilge pump system which is in good order.

I feel short term that once she is dry, I should apply some sealant to the outside hull/keel joint but before doing so, wanted to have advice on this issue before possibly making matters worse.

The bilges may be dry after fitting the sealant but I am obviously concerned.   My previous boat had an encapsulated lead keel so I need advice please?

During the Winter the boat will be laid up in my old yard who I am certain will be able to deal with the matter, but in the meantime I really could do with any advice please?

I do not have a 30mm spanner and have no intention of tampering with the keelbolts.   I built my old boat from a bare GRP hull and do pretty well all the work/maintenance but as far as this is concerned, I really am out of my depth!

[IslandAlchemy]

It almost certainly won't be from the keel bolts.  Please do not touch them.

It will be coming into the bilges through the limber holes.  Taste it to see if it is fresh or salt water.  If fresh, it may be related to your water tank issue.  If it is salt water, it is probably coming in from a deck fitting or the stantion bases.

It finds its way down between the skins and as if by magic, appears by the keel bolts.

[Symphony]

Completely agree. If the boat has been standing for some time, water will have accumulated in the stringers and the movement related to sailing the boat will cause it to work its way down to the bilge compartments around the bolts and give the impression the bolts are leaking - they are not. Given the problem with your fresh water tank it may well be the water came from a leak there.

Just be patient and mop up the water when it appears and you may well find over time the bilges become completely dry. However you may also find you still have real leaks from stanchions, windows or the fresh water system which you can then trace and fix.

Just for information the keel is both glued and bolted on to the hull and the only way that water can leak through the bolts is if both the glued joint fails and the bolts become loose. The external signs of this would be very obvious and would only happen if there was a severe trauma affecting the keel such as a high speed grounding sufficient to distort the bottom of the hull and damage the internal grid structure.

[Rampage]

It can take quite some time for water to work it’s way out of the stringers: like a week or more of sailing.  I panicked when we moved our boat from the Hamble to the Menai about the water which kept appearing, thinking must be from the keel bolts.  One of the delivery crew helping us move the boat stopped that short by tasting the water: it was fresh and the result of leaky taps and stanchion bases.
My first test now is always to taste any water appearing in the bilges.  It’s virtually always fresh, usually a leak somewhere in the fresh water system.

[Salty]

I’m inclined to go along with Symphony’s comment, water ingress particularly while sailing can travel a long way through the hollow rectangular and interconnecting bottom longitudinal and transverses. Considering the eighteen year age of your boat, I would ask whether it is still fitted with its original Volvo exhaust silencer. If you havent already sighted it, follow the rubber exhaust hose from your engine exhaust manifold. you are looking for a silencer with the Volvo name on it but which is constructed from a large diameter (about 8 - 10 inches) reinforced rubber tube with stainless steel ends held in place with appropriately sized jubilee style clips at each end.  These stainless steel ends suffer terribly from corrosion due to the absence of oxygen within the silencer and from the stagnant water that remains within the silencer all the while that the boat remains idle. Stainless steel needs oxygen in order to build up its protective coating. without oxygen it will corrode, and sooner or later it will start to leak. I suggest you find the silencer, dry the area under it, place some dry tissue paper under the silencer and then run your engine for a few minutes. If the tissue gets wet then you have found your leak. Dont hang around inside your boat while doing this test, because a leaking silencer will also be leaking exhaust fumes, carbon monoxide, the silent killer !!!
Other possible leaks are from the exhaust injection bend, and also from the sea water cooling pump shaft bearings. If you had a lot of water ingress my primary places to look would be the exhaust silencer and the exhaust injection bend.
if it is a leaking Volvo silencer, dont waste your money on a new Volvo silencer of the same design or construction materials, they are expensive and you can get very reliable plastic silencers ranging in price from about £65 upwards from Force 4 chandlery, for example.
Good luck with your investigations

[Trundletruc]

We had a niggling water leak which appeared in the bilges as almost fresh water. Eventually found out that it was a leak on the shower outlet fitting. Water from it would sit under the floor boards until we started sailing. Another leak which was frightening was rain water leaking in round screws at the back of the boat whilst on the hard. Once we launched it, all flooded into the bilges and made me think I had a leak! Best of luck sorting out your leak.

[tckearney]

I had a similar scare after buying my B42 just after purchase.  It was not salt water but did seem to be, to the taste.  To prove it I had two pans the same size and put them both on the same gas rings with an egg cup of water from the bilge and one from the sea,  then boiled them dry.  It was then very obvious which was sea water.   I then cut six pieces of  60mm plastic drain pipe  about 40mm long and siliconed them around the keel bolt nuts.  It is very reassuring when you look in the bilge to see my little pipe cups all bone dry.   I feel your water was left over from the water  tank.   Mine turned out to be the shower tap on the sugar scoop was just cracked open with no hose fitted, so water was running down from the stern locker.     

[ICENI]

Many thanks all of you.

 I am back on board now and although previously I removed gallons of water, firstly with a pump and then a sponge several times since arriving on my mooring, water was still present.

I dried again before leaving the boat last Sunday and upon arriving complete with a float switch to connect to the electric bilge pump, i found to my delight the bilge was almost completely dry.   It does seem to be a plumbing problem but we did our passage from Cornwall to the East coast of the UK using water containers with an apparently empty main watertank.   Although the taps in the head and galley produced no water, maybe there was some still there.

When I locate the problem I will repost.

I have to say that everyone's posts did make me feel less concerned, Thanks!

[Captain Jan]

Hi, I have just read this thread and have has similar experience on my 38. Not much to add. I had fresh water leaks, at different times, from both forward and aft showers, that lay in the frames which slowly made its way to the bilges, by the bolts.
However, I would make a suggestion. While all the floors are up and the area open, photograph all keel bolts. Try and get several in a shot for reference, from different angles to allow for parallax, or shoot them in a movie. In future years, if there are any concerns ref. drying out, shipyard accidents or groundings you can come back to these to re assure yourself that they are unchanged.  Your Bavaria is incredibly well built and tough, but it always feels good to be sure, and to be sure your keel bolts are as they were when you bought the boat. I know the surveyors report may be adequate evidence, but I would do this anyway.  If you do the movie with audio, you could also tap each one with a light hammer so the sound, indicating tightness, is also recorded with a comment as to date and whether afloat or  ashore.  Hope this helps.

[ICENI]

Thankyou Captain Jan.

[captain kev]

I agree with the general consensus.  I had this same scare on my 2001 Bavaria 37.  Turned out to be a leak from the hot water tank (located aft behind the engine compartment).  It took many frustrating hours of troubleshooting before finally locating the leak because, as some have said, water just seemed to magically appear in the bilge compartments over the keel bolts.