Author Topic: Lemar Integra auto-pilot reliability  (Read 11113 times)

westward

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Lemar Integra auto-pilot reliability
« on: April 10 2013, 17:00 »
I have a 2012 Bavaria Cruiser 32. It is fitted with a Garmin GHP12 autopilot and a Lewmar Integra rotary drive unit.

After about 2000 miles of cruising around the Med, the autopilot stopped working with an eror message on the Garmin autopilot saying there was a clutch fault.

Garmin fitted a relay supplied by Bavaria and the pilot worked again. I then crossed the Atlantic to the Caribbean. The pilot slowly developed a fault where the clutch wouldn't disengage. This was not a big problem during the crossing as the pilot was never off, however, in the Caribbean this became a problem and I swapped out the Lewmar Integra drive and replaced it with a spare I had bought as a backup. The old on had done about 7000 miles in 9 months or so.

The spare did not work at all. The clutch never engaged and the motor spun freely without turning the wheel.

Lewmar UK who are very helpful and fast to react immediately sent out a new drive. I fitted this and it worked. I was however obliged to take out the relay fitted by Garmin before it would work properly.

The new drive works OK but occasionally makes screeching noises which I assume is the clutch slipping.

Has anybody had similar experiences with this autopilot?

I have heard good reports of the similar Raymarine drive. Does anybody know if it is comoatible with the Garmin GHP12 and whether a kit exists for fitting it to the Bavaria 32?

The boat and all the fittings are still under warranty and all replacements and work have been so far done free of cost (except for the cost of staying in a marina waiting for parts and the cost of holiday plans disrupted).

The issue is not one of warranty, it is one of safety. I do not want to crosss the Atlantic again until I have reasonable confidence in my auto-pilot.

fisher

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Re: Lemar Integra auto-pilot reliability
« Reply #1 on: April 14 2013, 20:45 »
Oh God I have just fitted a brand new Lewmar Integra drive to my 2011 (Farr design) Bavaria 36 and spent and absolute fortune!!  It is linked up to a Raymarine course computer and control unit, all installed by Hudson Marine on the River Hamble, UK.  When I purchased my Bav 36 I did not have any electronics fitted by the dealers, as I did not have the money at the time.

I too intend on going to the Med, leaving May this year, spending the summer there, then heading to the Caribbean.  All single handed, so just like you, I need a reliable autopilot, and I have not got the money to take a spare Integra drive.  I purchased the Integra drive as I thought it was bomb proof.  Having seen your post, and googled it, I have seen others have also had problems.  Wish I had done more research before purchasing!

BTW Hudson Marina are excellent, cannot recommend them enough, the engineer who fitted my system stated that the Raymarine Linear drive units are absolutely bomb proof.

Sorry I cannot help your situation any further.

Hope some others will chip in, I will wait and keep an eye on this post

Kind regards

Karl
Sailing Yacht "Fisher"
Bavaria 36 Cruiser (Farr Yacht Design)
Built and commissioned 2011

Ripster

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Re: Lemar Integra auto-pilot reliability
« Reply #2 on: April 15 2013, 13:41 »
Interesting.  I have a 36 - 2011 fitted with Garmin AP and Lewmar drive unit.  I was told by the Local Bav dealer who fitted it all for me that the Lewmar drive system was the strongest and best!  In fact he stated it was a better option than the Raym unit.  I only do UK coastal/channel cruising and have not had the AP on for more than a few hours at a time, but so far everything has worked fine.  The only maintenance I have done when checking everything over is to very slightly tighten the chain a bit (a very small adjustment - prob me being fussy) but other than that all works well.

Ripster

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Re: Lemar Integra auto-pilot reliability
« Reply #3 on: April 15 2013, 13:49 »
Just read your post again....  To see if a GHP12 Garmin pilot would talk to Raym drive, call Garmin directly - they are very helpful and have an excellent back up service - I bet their tech guys would know straight off.  I have Raym wind/depth/log all talking to Garmin plotter/AP via a Seatalk converter box and all works OK.  But am not sure what language/in-outputs would be used from controller to drive - Garmin to Raym.

westward

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Re: Lemar Integra auto-pilot reliability
« Reply #4 on: April 21 2013, 16:34 »
Thanks to the people who replied.

I have since received a replacement for the original drive. I had to go back to Grenada from Martinique to collect it after I had left, assuming it was irretrievably lost in post. I installed it and it works without any problems so far (only 115 miles of continuous use).

I now have four drives on the boat. The draught is significantly increased because of it. I'm worried about getting into shallow water ports. I must send the non-functioning ones back to Lewmar.

I have decided to go up to Antigua and, if the new drive continues to function well, cross back to the eastern side of the Atlantic on the strength of this and the spare (which screeches).

When I took out the screeching spare drive to put in the new one, I found that the pinion had slipped on the shaft. This may have been the source of the screeching but I'm not sure. This despite my using loctite on the two grub screws when I installed it.

The whole pinion design is a very bad one. The shaft has a male spline which fits into a female spline in the end of the drive. This is held with a single axial central screw. This can't work long term as the spline is a slide fit and will have some play, which will end up either torquing up the screw until it breaks or loosening it until it no longer touches. When I took out the first pilot, I found the screw was loose. I check it every couple of days now.

The pinion is a slide fit on the short shaft and is prevented from rotating by a key. The pinion is prevented from sliding along the shaft by two radial grub screws. The grub screws come loose. When I took out the first pilot, both grub screws were also loose. These are more difficult to check being practically inaccessible via the trap in the side of the console.

I talked to the owner of a Bavaria 38 Ocean (a model I've never seen before) parked beside me in Grenada. He has a Lewmar drive and it has been in the boat for 15 years without problem. According to the guy at Lewmar, the design was changed in 2009. I assume that, because the old drive was so reliable, Lewmar realised there was some scope to take cost out of it.

When I re-installed the drive, I re-installed the relay (correctly wired this time; Garmin had incorrectly wired the power supply to the motor leads from the ECU). This is a backstop in case the clutch coil in the new drive short circuits like the old one. I also have a suspicion that, because the ECU is so far from the battery, the voltage drop is enough that the ECU is not supplying enough current to the clutch to engage properly.

I cannot get a clear reply whether this relay is required or not. According to Lewmar,the answer is no. According to the Garmin guys in Malta, the answer is yes, but it doesn't appear in any official Garmin notices that I have seen. The sheet which comes with it says that it is to be fitted only when the Lewmar drive is coupled with a Raymarine pilot.

My advice to Karl is;
- Check that your Lewmar drive is not an old version (at least Issue G for the Mamba alone or Issue B for the whole drive unit with the bracket and the pinion). If not get Lewmar to swap it for one.
- I assume that, as you are using a Raymarine computer, you have fitted the relay. Is this true?
- Check the resistance of the clutch coil from time to time. It should be around 6.2 ohms. On my failed pilot, it was 3,2 which caused the Garmin ECU to cut out with a clutch fault. Unfortunately, you need to take the covers under the cockpit off to do this. I have heard of Lewmar drives blowing fuses. This is certainly due to this short circuit.
- Check the torque on the screw holding the short pinion shaft onto the drive and the two grub screws holding the pinion on the shaft.

The critical point appears to be around 2000 miles. This may vary depending on whether the pilot is used in a hot or cold climate. If the clutch coishort circuitl problem is caused by the insulation melting, this could be a factor.

Let me know how you get on!

Sandy Herbert