Author Topic: Charging.... or not charging? (Read 6672 times)

MagicalArmchair · « **on:** February 21 2020, 14:40 »

Mirage is in the water and we are plugged into the mains, which I assumed would mean our batteries would be charging. On panel 426 there is a faint green light on, however when I put a multimeter over the battery terminals, they only read 12.38. So are we charging or not changing? If not, what could be wrong? Is there a switch to turn the charger on?

Domi409 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21 2020, 14:48 »

Hi,
I do not know the panel 426 but on my Bavaria, the battery charger is connected with the saloon plugs automatic fuse. So, lift your automatic fuses (not the one for the boiler) and check which one controls the battery charger.

Symphony · « **Reply #2 on:** February 21 2020, 18:49 »

The first thing is to check that you are getting 240V in. Make sure the breakers are in the on position. The battery charger may not come on automatically, but it will either have a warning light on it when it is charging or (more likely if it is an older type) you will be able to hear the fan running. You need an ammeter or battery monitor to know if a charge is getting to the batteries. 12.38 is on the low side. Are you sure you have a live supply as at Davis's you need a code to use the electricity on the pontoons as they are for berth holders only.

Strange you are in the water today - I drove past your boat in the yard only yesterday - I am in there or Cobbs Quay frequently! If you need any help while you are in Poole feel free to give me a pm or phone on 01202 697487. I live 15 minutes up the road.

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22 2020, 08:56 »

Yup, it was looking pretty dicey due to the wind, however Davies Yard were superb in getting us in the water in a short weather window in the morning. By the time we left the quayside it was blowing a little bit - not ideal for my first time handling a boat with so much windage, so it was quite alarming - we got into our berth without too much drama.

I have searched high and I have searched low - there is no battery charger, which kind of explains why the batteries were not charging!! I note in the boats docs the battery charger was an option. Ho hum, at least that means I can get something to my own specification.

ICENI · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22 2020, 13:17 »

I can recommend the Sterling Chargers. One really useful facility is their desulfation cycle. Batteries, especially when left unused for longish periods suffer from supfation on the plates. Getting this deposit off improves both battery life and efficiency.

I have recently changed my boat. On my previous sailboat I had one of their chargers and it served me very well.

I have just purchased their 1260 60 amp Pro Ultra. Yes the cost is high but you get what you pay for.

I hope this helps.

nightowle · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24 2020, 03:59 »

You may want to consider an inverter/charger combo. That's what we did recently.

Noelio Abrunhosa · « **Reply #6 on:** February 24 2020, 14:54 »

hi.
when my sterling charger gave up the ghost we replaced with a Victron 112/30 smart which we can monitor via a smartphone the status of charging. strongly recommend it

regards

Abby

tiger79 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 24 2020, 16:52 »

Quote from: Noelio Abrunhosa on February 24 2020, 14:54

when my sterling charger gave up the ghost we replaced with a Victron 112/30 smart which we can monitor via a smartphone the status of charging. strongly recommend it

Yes, I fitted a Victron Blue Smart charger last year. Excellent bit of kit. Thoroughly recommend.

Salty · « **Reply #8 on:** February 24 2020, 19:53 »

I can’t remember what make of mains battery charger I have fitted to my boat, it’s something I rarely use, but it is wired directly from the incoming 240 volt mains breaker fitted to the back of the Calira 426 panel. Originally the charging system was something that Was “Always On” whenever shore power was connected to the boat and in use. There was no switch as such where the electricity for the charger came directly from the mains breaker. However after the evolution of hydrogen gas from the batteries one night triggered the carbon monoxide alarm, I decided that I wanted a switch fitted so that I could decide whether I wanted the batteries to be charged or not. (That particular night it was cold and frosty and I had chosen to spend the night onboard while the boat was ashore in its cradle so that I could continue next morning with some work I was doing) Standing out in the cockpit wondering whether it was a genuine carbon monoxide alarm or not in minus temperatures and wondering whether it was safe to go back inside or not was not my idea of fun !!! It turned out to be a false alarm.

I have since fitted an illuminated switch into the circuit so that it is my decision whether I want the batteries charged overnight or not. Now the point I’m getting to is that originally there was no specific switch for the battery charger, so that it came on automatically whenever mains power was connected irrespective of whether charging was needed or not. Now if the mains breaker should fail, in theory it should trip out, and the only way one would know that the charger was not actually charging would have been by observing whether the charging lights on the battery charger were illuminated or not. Now my guess is that if you have not found a battery charger onboard, then it’s odds on you haven’t got one, but you really do need to take a good look around your boat to find out exactly what you have got fitted onboard, and also whether it works or not. The only answer to that, is a hands and knees search from one end of the boat to the other, and this should be done before you next unmoor your boat, no ifs or buts !!
If you find something where you don’t know what it is, take a photo of it and upload it to this website. Provide whatever information is written on the item and ask us for advice on what we think it might be.
Hope this helps !

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #9 on:** February 25 2020, 20:18 »

There was no battery charger, so a quick trip to Force4 in Poole saw me with this little fellow below. I can put it into a quieter night mode, and from the unit itself I can turn it off, although it still would be nice to have a switch on it as you mentioned. In hindsight, perhaps an inverter/charger might have been the way to go, however, the inverter on my old boat, Triola, very rarely got used at all.

I do need to wire this directly into the 240V panel (Panel 426) - (http://bavariayacht.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=560.0;attach=673;image) - where do I wire it to? This thing charges at 30A, and the breaker itself is 30A if memory serves, so if anything else is using power at the same time (say, a 240v heater for instance), that'll trip the breaker wont it?

Any tips for where to connect this to panel 426??

Salty · « **Reply #10 on:** February 26 2020, 04:12 »

Your new battery charger provides 30 amps at 12 volts, that amounts to (12 multiplied by 30 = 360 watts), and 360 watts supplied by a 240 volt system amounts to (360 divided by 240 = 1.5 amps). So the amount of current being provided to your battery charger through your 240 volt system would be 1.5 amps. In other words your onboard mains breaker would still have a lot of capacity remaining before it tripped.

I don’t know what the capacity of the mains breaker fitted on your boat is, but if it remains as the factory supplied breaker unit, then it is most likely to be a 16 amp unit. The reason for this From what I’ve heard, and don’t take it as being the gospel truth, is that the 240 volt power supplies to individual berths in marinas within Europe are limited to 16 amps. If you draw more than that then your power supply to your boat would automatically trip and disconnect.

If you are using several 240 volt supplied items onboard, then you either need to do those sums to work out how many amperes of current you are using at 240 volts, and stay below 16 of them, or accept that if you should go above that limit then your power supply will most likely trip out.

For others, if you are provided with mains power at some other voltage, say 110 volts or thereabouts in some countries such as USA for example, the same calculations apply but using your mains voltage for the calculation instead of 240, but you would need to check the limit of current supplied to individual berths within marinas in your part of the world

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #11 on:** February 26 2020, 10:05 »

Thank you, that's great news. I will write those sums down. So would I wire those three wires here:

And how on earth do you pivot this 240V panel out?

Keweetoo · « **Reply #12 on:** February 26 2020, 11:41 »

My charger is fitted with a standard 3 pin plug which is fitted into a dedicated switched socket on the 240v circuit. That way I can disconnect by switching the socket to off. Have a look to see if its relatively easy to take a spur from your 240v circuit and fit a socket near your charger position.

Symphony · « **Reply #13 on:** February 26 2020, 15:50 »

That is how I wired mine in my 37. surface mount socket in the same locker as the batteries along with the charger to keep all the cable runs short. can't remember whether I wired the 240v back to the panel or took a spur off the socket ring main. Useful to have it switched as the charger (a Synergex), was noisy. The Cristec in my current boat is almost silent when running so have not bothered to switch it. The ammeter in the battery monitor is the best indicator of a charge.

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #14 on:** February 26 2020, 22:13 »

Ah that’s a cracking idea, the 240V cable from the charger itself is quite short, so that will make sense as I can terminate that wire on a plug and then put another surface mounted socket in the cupboard where I am going to mount the charger. (the breaker is 30A).

For the wires going from the charger to each of the battery banks I have a roll of this stuff in the garage in black and red.

https://www.arc-components.com/0-947-05-30m-x-600mm2-red-42a-auto-single-core-cable-6003.html

Will this do the trick as it’s rated to continuous 42A and the fuse in the line will be 40A?

I’ll cut the cables to 2 meters each, that’ll give plenty of length.

Salty · « **Reply #15 on:** February 26 2020, 22:53 »

From Magical Armchair - “And how on earth do you pivot this 240V panel out?”

If it is the same set up as my Calira 426 panel, then you will find that the panel is held in place with four fixed bolts from the panel, one in each corner, and with each bolt secured using wing nuts. You will need to reach behind the panel to find the wing nuts, and I personally would suggest you unplug the mains connection lead from the stern of your boat before you reach behind the panel. Once you have found the wing nuts, the trick is to remove each of them in turn without dropping any of the wing nuts behind the panel as you’ll have serious difficulty in finding any that you drop. With all four wing nuts undone (three on my boat as one had been lost at some time in the past), you then simply pull the panel off the bulkhead. There is sufficient slack cable to allow this panel to hang off while you work on it. To control the battery charger, I fitted an “illuminated when on” switch to the face of that panel, and connected the switch directly to the 16 amp incoming mains breaker switch. It works a treat and is illuminated whenever the battery charger is switched on.

SYJetzt · « **Reply #16 on:** February 27 2020, 11:39 »

Quote from: Salty on February 26 2020, 22:53

...You will need to reach behind the panel to find the wing nuts, and I personally would suggest you unplug the mains connection lead from the stern of your boat before you reach behind the panel. Once you have found the wing nuts, the trick is to remove each of them in turn without dropping any of the wing nuts behind the panel as you’ll have serious difficulty in finding any that you drop. With all four wing nuts undone (three on my boat as one had been lost at some time in the past), you then simply pull the panel off the bulkhead...

Is there anybody out there, how didn't loose the nuts? I asked my wife to turn the nuts off because of the narrow space (and yes, i turned off the mains in advance

).
If you can fix all four nuts after completing the work, please let us know, you'll get a job as midwife anywhere

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #17 on:** March 07 2020, 19:23 »

Without a shadow of a doubt, I'll be losing those wing nuts then!!

Okay, so here is the set up: We have 6mm cable (3mm core), rated at 42A travelling to a 40A breaker, and then about 1.2M to the domestic and engine battery positives. We have a black 1.2M 6mm (3mm core), rated to 42A again to go to the negative terminals.

One question, the terminal on the battery end is 8mm - is that going to be fat enough to bolt onto the battery terminal clamp? Or do I need to go to 10mm (I'll need to buy new terminals in that case!!)? Last thing I want to do is arrive on the boat and find that the terminals at the end of the wires don't fit the batteries!!!

Rampage · « **Reply #18 on:** March 08 2020, 09:41 »

If the ring terminals on the end of your wires will fit the battery terminal bolts (usually 8mm) then that’s all you need worry about. If they won’t fit the terminal bolts because you’ve got larger bolts, then you’ll need larger terminals. Or am I missing something?

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #19 on:** March 08 2020, 13:32 »

Hello Rampage, yes, quite so, I suppose the question is factory fitted, are the bolts 8mm (which my terminals will fit) or 10mm (which my terminals will not

) - I can't wait for the boat to be more local so I can pop down and just check these things myself $:-\$

Salty · « **Reply #20 on:** March 09 2020, 06:10 »

Just a suggestion, you could make up some temporary bridging connectors from pieces of flat metal with 8mm holes drilled at one end to take your existing connectors, and 10mm holes at the other. Take some 8mm fully threaded bolts and some insulating tape with you, and then you are ready for when you next arrive on your boat and can see the situation. Insulate you’re bridging connectors if you need to use them temporarily, and get correctly sized connections made up ready to take with you at your next subsequent visit.

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #21 on:** March 09 2020, 23:49 »

Thank you, I ended up making up a second set of cables with 10mm ends! Hopefully that will cater for all eventualities... (wonder if they will now be 12mm!

)

MagicalArmchair · « **Reply #22 on:** March 16 2020, 20:01 »

Success! I managed to not lose any wingnuts!