Author Topic: Circuit Breaker Delays (Read 6746 times)

captpatrick211 · « **on:** February 15 2020, 23:41 »

Hey everyone - we convinced our good friends to buy a Bavaria (we love ours) and they purchased a 2008 Bavaria 46 Cruiser. Lovely boat but one of the circuit breakers behind the navsta panel went out immediately and they are still waiting for the part from Germany (it's now been 8 weeks). Our local electronics guys here in the US have done the best they can but we're afraid we'll lose these first time sailors if this isn't resolved. Any insight or recommendations? Thank you!

Konan the Bavarian · « **Reply #1 on:** February 16 2020, 09:36 »

photo?
or description of panel?

elias · « **Reply #2 on:** February 16 2020, 11:23 »

As a temp fix , the electronic guy could put another kind of breaker somewhere else if they are hurried . But to which load the breaker is assigned and why it went out ? Maybe there is an issue to the device that is assigned ?

Jeffatoms · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17 2020, 05:02 »

Are you referring to the combined breaker/switch or the individual component-rype panel that has the push button breaker alongside the accompanying rocker switch? We have a Calaria panel 420. The reason I ask is that a few weeks ago we isolated a problem we had to the switch; the breaker was fine. The switch was a few dollars and arrived with a few days.

captpatrick211 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17 2020, 14:54 »

Thanks everyone - Here's what we know - The manufacturer’s full name is ABL SURSUM. Before we ordered this part from PYachtsales, we checked with a lot of different distributors and they could not source it. It’s a DIN rail breaker but needs to be a specific height due to the way it fits in the panel. We could not find any substitute for it. We did send PYachtsales an email on the 11th asking for status and never heard a word from them. Trying again today and see if we can get any more information. I hope the breakers are actually on their way. If not and we don’t have a substitute we may have to retro-fit the panel. We did not anticipate that we were going to have this level of difficulty.

SYJetzt · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17 2020, 16:15 »

No wonder, that you have that troubles, because the standards of this equipment vary a lot between US and Europe. Bavaria builds their boats following european standards, so it might be difficult to source this material in the US. Usually the built in stuff in Bavaria-Boats is pretty standard (in Europe!), so it is easy to source it in Europe. If you provide some photos of the breakers and the dimensions, you can get links for online-shops in europe from the community of this forum, and where to purchase the stuff. No need to source this stuff in Yacht-chandleries.
Regards Robert

captpatrick211 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18 2020, 01:05 »

Thank you to all.... very helpful - photos are coming. We don't want these guys to lose their newly found love of sailing!!!

Jeff Jones · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18 2020, 21:33 »

Have you checked their pdf catalog... https://www.abl.de/global/downloads/kataloge/ABL_SwitchingDevices_web_2017.pdf

see if you can identify the breaker your looking for

Lyra · « **Reply #8 on:** February 19 2020, 11:38 »

Try looking for CB's by the following manufacturers, which I think sell in the US:
ABB
Merlin Gerin
Klockner Moeller
Schneider Electric

captpatrick211 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 27 2020, 02:00 »

Thanks Jeff and Lyra ..... here's what we now know: Although having an exact replacement is ideal, in our case that will not be possible as the company no longer exists. Well, sort of. All ABL-Sursum did was sell off that portion of their business to this other company. When they did that they sold them everything such as the intellectual rights, patents, design schematics, etc. So the new company is now producing the exact same thing the original manufacturer produced. Anyway, my research today has shown that these things are available and are made by many different companies. I just have to make sure I order the right size. I emailed the new company in Germany to ask them what is the exact replacement for the old part and where can I source it.

But given what I see above - we may be cool! I think my buddy who is struggling with this is about to chime in. Thanks!

Salty · « **Reply #10 on:** February 27 2020, 04:54 »

Now that I can see exactly what it is that you are hoping to replace, I did exactly this sometime during the early part of last year. That contact breaker has some identification numbers on it, and At the time I did an eBay search for its replacement. The search scored a direct hit within seconds. The order was placed, and a a day or two later an exact replacement part was received, installed and is working a treat.
It really does help to post a photo of the part that is giving aggravation. As soon as I find my original post on this subject, I’ll copy the reference across to here.

Follow up as promised:-

It was at reply number 49 in the Breakdown and Failure Survey started by Impavidus

Remrio · « **Reply #11 on:** February 27 2020, 20:02 »

Hail my fellow Bav brethren. I am the new Bavaria Cruiser 46 owner with the broken circuit breaker. I cannot tell you how incredibly frustrating and time consuming this has been. I have just logged in and will read each of your responses. I hope to find a solution to this problem so that I am ready to sail in just a few more months... maybe sooner if this weather continues to stay as warm as it has been.

Thank you all, in advance, for your replies.

Yngmar · « **Reply #12 on:** February 28 2020, 12:24 »

You still haven't shared a photo of the actual item on your boat, but from the website screenshots, it looks like you mean the RCBO that Bavaria fitted from the factory for protecting the AC circuits.

An RCBO isn't just a breaker, instead it's a combination of a breaker and a RCD (Residual Current Device). The breaker part protects against overcurrent and the RCD protects against ground faults. The US term is GFCI (ground fault current interruptor).

To fit your Bavaria panel, you need one that mounts on a DIN rail and most of them should fit. They might be different total height, so protrude a bit more from the panel (which doesn't matter), but the distance between rail and panel is somewhat standardized, and it's this one that is critical for whether it fits in there or not.

I've replaced mine some time ago with a Siemens 5SU1356-6KK, but any that match the specs written on the front of your device will work just as well (in my case, B16A, 30mA, 230V where B is the response curve, 16A is the breaker current and 30mA the residual current - but check yours). In Europe these can be had for around €30 delivered, or around €20 from your local electrician's supplier.

However, since you're in the US and probably run your boat AC installation on 110V, you're better off fitting the US equivalent, which is most likely much easier to acquire for you. A quick search for "GFCI rail" on amazon.com throws up several candidates, such as this one: https://www.amazon.com/NDB1L-32C-16-120V-Circuit-Breaker-Sensing-Leakage/dp/B00NTVBETI/

All of this is something I'd expect a good boat electrician to know

Remrio · « **Reply #13 on:** February 28 2020, 15:14 »

Hello Yngmar,

Here are a few pictures. And yes, you are on point. This was factory installed. My electrician is saying that the one we have found is not tall enough. The factory item is 90mm tall. The one we did find is 85mm tall. I am so new to this that if I am to be honest, I have zero idea what I’m doing here. So I muddle on.

I appreciate your assistance and that of everyone one else who has offered insight on this forum. Worry not that I will give up on the boating life as my friend Captpatrick211 fears. This is simply a challenge that will be overcome. I have the boating life bug!

Yngmar · « **Reply #14 on:** February 28 2020, 15:52 »

So you must have a Panel 302 on the AC side, looking something like this:

That means the 90/85mm dimension is irrelevant (that part is hidden behind the panel), what matters is that the part that protrudes through the panel (the bit with the button and switch on it) is 45mm tall and 36mm or less wide, which are standard sizes for these things.

Assuming the electrical specs for your existing one was correct (230V, C32A, 30ma), this one should fit and do the same job as your old one: https://www.amazon.com/NDB1L-32C-32-240V-Circuit-Breaker-Sensing-Leakage/dp/B00NTVB0DS/

They also have the (IMHO more correct for you) 120V version (unless your boat actually does run on 240V, but that's somewhat unlikely).

Happy wiring

Remrio · « **Reply #15 on:** February 28 2020, 16:22 »

Ack! That looks correct. If this works out, I owe you immensely. Beer, wine, liquor, gold, silver, my first born... I don’t have a kid but it’s the sentiment that counts!

Here is a pic of my panel sans the other side, but yes.... that’s exactly why it looks like.

Remrio · « **Reply #16 on:** February 28 2020, 18:44 »

That was a terrible picture. Let me try another.

Remrio · « **Reply #17 on:** March 03 2020, 01:30 »

Hello Bavaria Brethren-

I had my electrician order the part suggested by by Yngmar in his last post. It should be here by March 9 or 10. Fingers crossed. If for some reason it does not work, we're going to rebuild the panel so that we have stateside available components. I refuse to miss my first full sailing season.

With that said, I want to thank all of you for your suggestions. I will post back as to the outcome.

Until then, sail on!

Joe

Noelio Abrunhosa · « **Reply #18 on:** March 03 2020, 18:13 »

have you tried disconnecting the load side of the breaker. if it doesnt trip it could be the hot water heater element. Common fault

regards

Abby

Remrio · « **Reply #19 on:** March 04 2020, 07:29 »

Hi Abby-

The hot water heater has been off since we winterized her so we did not even checked that. My electrician as well as a friend and fellow boater each throughly checked my entire electrical system on separate occasions and both localized the issue to the same faulty breaker. I guess it was just time for the breaker to.... break.

If the breaker Yngmar suggested doesn’t solve my problem, I’m moving ahead with rebuilding the panel. I guess you might say the breaker broke me!

Remrio · « **Reply #20 on:** March 10 2020, 17:04 »

As previously mentioned, I am forging forward with rebuilding the circuit breaker panel using North American components. My electricians have a question on the what each of the symbols below mean. Any help is appreciated.

SYJetzt · « **Reply #21 on:** March 11 2020, 07:35 »

You can find documentation for a lot of stuff in the Owner´s manual section, and for your panel here:

http://bavariayacht.org/forum/index.php/topic,1541.msg9720.html#msg9720

Remrio · « **Reply #22 on:** March 29 2020, 16:59 »

Hello everyone-

Happy to report that my circuit breaker issue has been fixed. After a long, unproductive search for mini DIN rail circuit beakers like those original to my boat, I gave up and had my panel rebuilt using North American components. It has been working like a charm. I want to sincerely thank all of you in this community for your advice. As a new, first time boat owner, I am sure to have many more questions. In fact, I have one already. I'll create a new post about that in a bit.

Ending this post, I share these pictures of the rebuilt Navsta panel.