Bavaria Cruiser 40 m.y. 2008- 2010

[kavok]

When I bought it, the broker told me this model is the better Bavaria project  in the period before  Farr and BMW design.
He told me that this is the ultimate design for Bavaria from J&J designers, so they put in this model the last development of previous model specially from  42' and 39'.
What is your opinion? 
 

[Yngmar]

Depends on which design you like better. Personally I never warmed up to the Farr designs and prefer the J&J, but they're built in the same factory using the same methods. The newer boats will inevitably have some newer features of course. Suppliers and manufacturing methods have continually changed even during model lines, usually for the better, sometimes not (occasionally a supplier or method didn't work out and was changed again later). Pick the boat you like!

[Symphony]

Having owned both a J&J and a Farr designed Bavaria (both bought new), in my opinion the Farr is much, much better. Not that there was anything wrong with the earlier boats when they were in production, just that things move on and the newer designs are in my view, better sailing boats and much better built. My only reservation is that the first Farr designs were let down by awful styling and interiors, but the later revisions by the factory and Design Unlimited transformed them.

However I think it is fair to say that the market that now exists for new boats is very different from what it was in the past and later models have less appeal for many owners compared with the 1997-2008 boats. Things are changing yet again and the under 40' market which was Bavaria's big market for many years has collapsed and the new designs for the growing 45'+ sector are distinctly unappealing to "traditional" Bavaria owners. This may well also be true of other builders.

[kavok]

My ideas was not compare J&J projects against Farr projectS, but J&J 40 Cruiser 2008-2010 with other J&J previous Bavaria.

[Symphony]

OK. The J&J designs all followed the same basic recipe and were constantly being changed because the market up to around 2009 was huge, particularly for charter use. Bavaria were building more than 2000 boats a year and were revising the models every 2 or 3 years. Each time (in my view) it was two steps forward and one step back - that is they would improve some aspects and spoil others. However the basic underlying qualities stayed the same. Inevitably some specific models really "hit the spot" such as the early 42, 32, 34, 38, 46 and later 36. None of the others were "bad", but in my view after 2007/8 they started to lose their way, particularly with interior design compared with earlier boats and compared with the competition.

Much of this is subjective, but I think it is fair to say that most people have their "favourites" - often the boat they own, or lust after. Personally I think the Ocean range like Yngmar has is the pinnacle of the Bavaria J&J boats, but it is rather different from the more common cruiser models once you get past the visual similarities, although the Cruiser 42 of the same era runs it close. That was my first choice when we bought our first Bavaria, but it was just a bit too big for what we wanted and we bought a 37 with a shallow keel so we could transit the French canals. For what we wanted it was excellent and kept it 13 years before swapping for a 33 in 2015.

Not sure any of this helps. Boats are what they are and by and large owners are happy with their choice. You can only buy one boat at a time and your choice is based on what you perceive as the best value for you at the time. It will never be perfect and next time you buy you will no doubt seek to buy a boat that is "better" based on your experience or your changing circumstances.

[Craig]

The strength of Bavaria is the automated factory using CNC machines. I agree that the Bavaria design concepts commencing in about 2010 or 2011 with the chunky, high sides and redesigned interiors took a bit of getting used to.

The Bavaria designs from about 1999 to 2010 all seem to be well built boats and time has shown them to be reliable. The folding bathing platform was probably the biggest design concept change during this time. Other concept changes during this time were the move to sail drives compared to shaft drives in many of the earlier models.

The most obvious design changes in the latest boats ( post 2010) is the extension of the bathing platform across the entire stern, ( great for space but a problem in Med mooring) the shrouds attaching to the hull rather than the cabin top ( better angle and improved mast support but more likely to snag a neighbours boat in med mooring) and greater interior space compared with previous models. The new Bavaria 34s have added a lot of space in the aft cabin by taking the accommodation right to the transom whereas in my Bav 38 (2010 model-pre Farr) I have a wasted space, almost a metre wide behind my aft cabin bulkhead.) There has also been a move to twin wheels in the newer, smaller boats compared with the past. Some of the newer boats seem to be fitted with smaller, self tacking headsails. Others on this forum may have been able to test this, but I would think that this may be a backward step in speed unless a spinnaker is used.

Bavaria have stuck with Seldan rigging and Volvo engines but changed from Raymarine electronics a few years ago. I think Elstrom sails have been on new Bavarias for some time.

You will get strong opinions on what models are better, but they are opinions based on individual tastes and needs.

In the end, we all love our own boats, much like a woman's attitude to their babies. No matter what they really look like, they are always the best.

Craig
" Shirley Valentine"
Gold Coast
Australia

[Symphony]

One of the attractions of the Farr designs to me is the rig with the emphasis on the main and a small jib rather than the earlier smaller main, large genoa. This was a key factor for me as it makes the boat so much easier to handle single handed. Add a cruising chute on a furler and offwind performance is restored, at least in winds up to 15 knots. This type of rig is almost universal now on newer boats, some with a self  tacking jib. Better cockpit and helm layouts with all controls and winches easy to reach are big improvements over earlier boats. Downside, at least on the smaller boats is the lower shroud cuts across the side deck making access forward tricky, particularly if you are tall like me.

[Clivert]

We have a 2001 34 by J&J which has an A rating ie ocean.
The rig is as solid as a rock, usefull having been in 35-40 knots in heavy seas.
We have amongst other things, a proper nav station with a proper chart table.
The interior is polished wood unlike some newer boats that look like they are built by Ikea or Wickes and has reachable handholds.
We have decent cockpit lockers one of which stores our dinghy and all lines and ropes.
Not only that, reaching across Christchurch Bay under full sail ( inmast furling main and furling genoa ) reached 8 knots plus.
Do I like J&J designs ?
What do you think ?