Author Topic: Plotter in binnacle - 2004 B32 (Read 12297 times)

Iain C · « **on:** March 19 2018, 21:42 »

My boat currently has 3 x Raymarine ST60s on the wheel binnacle, speed, depth, and autopilot. Wind is on the bulkhead to port of the companionway.

I'd like to fit a cockpit plotter...ideally a Raymarine Axiom 7, but I don't think there's going to be enough room. Just wondering what people may have done in this situation...used a Scanstrut pod or similar perhaps?

Thanks in advance!

Craig · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20 2018, 07:30 »

Ian,

I don't know if your binnacle is similar to mine.( Bav 38, 2010 model) See photo.

To fit the Raymarine E 80 plotter the binnacle was modified. A black Perspex sheet was cut to fit the area above the Wind, Autopilot and Depth gauges. This Perspex then had a hole cut in it to accommodate the Plotter. This had to be built out using a wooden frame.

This was a standard fitting at the time used by the then Australian Bavaria Agents and also used by some of the Med Bavaria agents. Mine was fitted by the Maltese agent in Koper in Slovenia in 2010 when the boat was launched. That is why I think a few of the Bavaria agents used a similar fix.

Craig
" Shirley Valentine"
Gold Coast
Australia

Moodymike · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20 2018, 10:03 »

This is my solution on my B32.

Fenders · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20 2018, 17:37 »

And this is mine on a 2004 B32

Salty · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20 2018, 22:29 »

I didn’t fit mY plotter into the binnacle, but instead mounted it to the rail that runs across the top and as shown in the following posting.
http://bavariayacht.org/forum/index.php/topic,1432.msg8209.html#msg8209

This makes it easy to remove the plotter for safe keeping when you are not onboard.

Jam · « **Reply #5 on:** March 21 2018, 22:47 »

Here is my best effort my binnacle has no room so decided to fit on the rail. It’s an axiom7, used a machine piece on plastic from local supplier and plastimo mounts having seen it on similar post on this forum. Managed to connect to rail after a bit of drilling, countersinking and cuting the SS bolts I had purchased. I was reluctant to spend money on specialised case of move the instrument already on binnacle. My main aim was to keep its as low as possible to allow me move unhindered under sprayhood and to leave some of the rail as hand hold. The Perspex was required as holes on the bracket did match those on plastimo mounts
John

Iain C · « **Reply #6 on:** March 22 2018, 21:20 »

Thanks all.

Fenders, I'm particularly interested in your setup, as you have squeezed the Lowrance Hook7 plus 3 110x110 heads onto your binnacle with no additional pods. I've checked the dimensions of the Hook7 against the Axiom7 and the Axiom is in fact slightly smaller, so that should mean more room.

One question, what is the view (particularly of your wind instrument) like when stood behind the wheel? Does the compass block it out at all? My setup would look slightly different...Axiom up top, then probably from left to right speed, autopilot, depth (my wind is up by the hatch).

If I can get in all in like you have I'd be happy, but if you have viewing angle issues then I'd probably add a pod.

Thanks

Fenders · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23 2018, 10:19 »

Iain C

There are no problems viewing the instruments when stood behind the wheel.

Our setup is probably helped by the Tridata display. Some boats have individual speed, depth, etc., and takes up valuable space.

If you are contemplating a similar arrangement, check the depth of your plotter. Some of them are quite deep and may not fit into the panel as it may be obstructed by cable looms, etc and as we were tight on space the plotter had to be a particular size and so we bought the biggest we could fit in the space available.
We wanted to keep the handrail clear and so didn't install a pod.

As you can see the new panel fits on the binnacle very nicely. The old white panel had so many holes drilled into it and was so badly marked and discoloured the only way forward was with a new panel. The new one is oversized by 10mm all around so actually fits over the raised lip on the binnacle. It is double sealed with compressible hollow rubber strips and silicone grease.

All items were sourced from eBay very cheaply.

Hope this helps

Fenders

Iain C · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23 2018, 14:15 »

Fenders

This is my current setup...so in theory it should be fine...I'll just move the existing instruments to the bottom and put the a/p head in the middle as the smaller screen on that particular unit will mean the compass in theory obscures less compared to speed/depth.

My chosen Axiom 7 is smaller in every dimension than the Lowrance unit, so all being well it should all fit fine. The only think I will do is use genuine carbon fibre for the panel...I'm also a dinghy sailor and could not live with the pretend stuff!

Thanks again, a really helpful post!

Iain C · « **Reply #9 on:** April 29 2018, 21:13 »

Well, I got it fitted this weekend. It certainly wasn't as easy as I'd hoped...although I'd just managed to squeeze the Axiom in there and get panel in place, unfortunately there wasn't enough room for the rigid plastic power cable to go in the back...aarrggh!!!

So I made the Axiom stand proud of the panel simply by putting some hatch seal tape around it. Initially I thought this was a horrible bodge, but in practice it actually looks fine...although I did have to make my own s/s clamps for it. I notice that you can actually get aftermarket mount kits but I'll probably just stick with mine, and it does now stand proud the same as the ST60s so it'll do for now.

And yes, that is real carbon!!

Clivert · « **Reply #10 on:** April 30 2018, 09:54 »

On our 2001 34 the binnacle was too shallow to fit colour RL70 so used a pod bolted to the back of the binnacle.
I drew a design and took it to a fabricator in Portsmouth.
The tube is drilled to take the cables which keeps it neat and tidy.
I have replace the plotter with a C80 with the RL going below,placed in the door of the small cupboard which then swings round to face the chart table, locked in place with a spring strut, thus making it easy to maintain a log without having note it down in the cockpit first.
Hope this helps.

JEN-et-ROSS · « **Reply #11 on:** May 01 2018, 16:42 »

Would all these electronic navaids so close to the compass not cause appalling deviation problems?
Though I suppose with the electronics in action the compass would not really be needed.
But if the whole lot went for a 'burton', say due to a power failure requiring the compass to become the main source of directional information again.
Could the very close proximity of the equipment still cause excessive deviation problems at a time when you really don't need it?..........Bill

Pax JJD · « **Reply #12 on:** May 01 2018, 18:53 »

I fitted a Raymarine E7 a few years ago and used a pod mounted on the binnacle rail as shown in the attached.
[img][img]

Symphony · « **Reply #13 on:** May 01 2018, 22:44 »

Quote from: JEN-et-ROSS on May 01 2018, 16:42

Would all these electronic navaids so close to the compass not cause appalling deviation problems?
Though I suppose with the electronics in action the compass would not really be needed.
But if the whole lot went for a 'burton', say due to a power failure requiring the compass to become the main source of directional information again.
Could the very close proximity of the equipment still cause excessive deviation problems at a time when you really don't need it?..........Bill

Not noticed any change in the compass whether the electronics are on or off. This sort of arrangement has been common for getting on for 20 years now, so if there were a problem I think somebody would have noticed it by now!

JEN-et-ROSS · « **Reply #14 on:** May 02 2018, 09:45 »

Quote from: Symphony on May 01 2018, 22:44

Quote from: JEN-et-ROSS on May 01 2018, 16:42
Would all these electronic navaids so close to the compass not cause appalling deviation problems?
Though I suppose with the electronics in action the compass would not really be needed.
But if the whole lot went for a 'burton', say due to a power failure requiring the compass to become the main source of directional information again.
Could the very close proximity of the equipment still cause excessive deviation problems at a time when you really don't need it?..........Bill

Not noticed any change in the compass whether the electronics are on or off. This sort of arrangement has been common for getting on for 20 years now, so if there were a problem I think somebody would have noticed it by now!

I mentioned this because I was interested in the additional deviation effects when the navaids were 'off'.
i.e. the time you might really need accurate directional information.
The reason for the concern is that 35 odd years ago I was training for an ATPL, at the time when early GPS and mobile 'phones were being introduced.
Our instructors would wave one of these devices (switched 'off') near the compass.....the effect could be surprising, 10-20deg swing.
The rule was nothing 'foreign' within 3ft of the compass.

Having said all that, we also have Log/Wind/Depth mounted above the compass, but it's over 1ft above.
The C70 is mounted in the port-side bulkhead. (just in case one of the said instructors comes back to haunt me..!!)..........Bill

Yngmar · « **Reply #15 on:** May 02 2018, 10:08 »

I've had our RC530 Plotter in and out of the binnacle a few times and noticed it caused a huge deviation to the compass when present (20° or so). No difference between switched on and off though - the old Raytheon kit is properly shielded. But nonetheless the binnacle compass is pretty useless, as I expect it is on most boats - just nobody cares.

When hand-steering at night I go by the digital compass readout on the Autohelm display. I've calibrated it and it's pretty accurate. But mostly I just let the Autohelm do that job instead

If instruments should fail, I can always tape the hand-bearing compass somewhere in the cockpit away from electronics. Unless it was due to lightning strike (the most likely cause for total instrument failure), in which case any compasses aboard may also be affected and useless.

JEN-et-ROSS · « **Reply #16 on:** May 02 2018, 12:40 »

Quote from: Yngmar on May 02 2018, 10:08

But nonetheless the binnacle compass is pretty useless, as I expect it is on most boats - just nobody cares.

Agreed.
I'm sure like most boats, we have several levels of 'navaid redundency'
1) C70 with Radar, loaded with Navionics.
2) Lenovo X1 Carbon (can be powered by house batteries) with GPS Dongle, loaded with Memory Maps/Seapro lite/Antares Charts/Neptune Tides.
3) Ipod (can be powered by external battery) with bluetooth GPS, loaded with Navionics/Memory Maps/Antares Charts/Imray Tides.
4) Etrex 1st Gen, (can be powered by house batteries) + Paper Charts.
5) Paper Charts, Dead reckoning, and...Oh yes, the Compass.
If the compass wasn't such a beautiful instrument I think I'd just convert it into a beer mug holder.......Bill

Fenders · « **Reply #17 on:** May 02 2018, 18:22 »

Ian a C, nice job you’ve done there.

Fenders

Lyra · « **Reply #18 on:** May 03 2018, 11:41 »

I still find the magnetic compass useful. While the azimuth it shows may be off, for me it is the most convenient instrument to hold a course when hand steering (especially in rough sea). I get the true course from the GPS or the autopilot reading (not really true but good enough), see what I get on the magnetic compass, and from that point keep a watch on it. From time to time I look at the plotter display in the nav station (actually a Raspberry PI running OpenCPN) just to make sure I am not drifting too much off the required course.

Escapade · « **Reply #19 on:** June 24 2018, 13:29 »

I wish to thanks Fenders for the inspiration, this is my set up on a B35E - 1997

Fenders · « **Reply #20 on:** June 25 2018, 21:23 »

Escapade

Lovely looking binnacle. Well done

Fenders

pjl · « **Reply #21 on:** August 13 2018, 18:09 »

Here's a 9" Axiom on a 2003 38 Cruiser.

Tridata is installed below and Axiom and ST6001 are used as repeaters for trip, speed and depth. Inside the binnacle is a St1 - StNG conversion kit which hooks up the old instruments with Axiom. The pod for the two ST instruments was an unbranded one I luckily found in a local shop.

The biggest problem was to plan the setup and location of the old instruments and then finding the pod. It took its time but after a couple months of using this I'm really happy with the way it turned out.

btw. those are not scratches above the plotter. It's just the backstay...

rbrtmccorkle · « **Reply #22 on:** August 28 2018, 19:00 »

Have been following this thread with interest. Last winter I took a electronic navigation course at the Seattle Boat Show. In that class they stressed the advantages of having two displays. and the advantages of having being able to show things at differing levels of granularity. I have a new Raymarine ES 77 chart plotter but it only has a 7 inch screen so dual display's on the plotter tend to be hard on the eyes and brings this issue of granularity to the forefront. In this class they suggested the cheap way of getting to the dual display was to link your Ipad in via wifi.

I just sailed up the Pacific Coast of Washington State to the Straight of San Juan De Fuca with two nights at sea and spending several hours in dense fog. This experience has made me a big believer in the dual display approach.

Just some comments from the Cheap seats

Blue Skies and Fair Winds

Salty · « **Reply #23 on:** August 30 2018, 05:16 »

Or alternatively, and in addition to your very fine chart plotter, you could carry appropriately scaled official paper charts of the area in which you are Sailing. Keep in mind that the electronic charts you are using in your chart plotter may not be of the standard required by SOLAS and IMO, but at best they cannot show more detail than is included on an official paper chart because it is that detail on the paper chart that has been digitised to make up your electronic chart. Also, when using your electronic chart display, you should change ranges at short and regular intervals, and move the mapped area across the screen in order to look ahead so that detail not shown on larger ranges but which is included in the shorter ranges does not go undetected. If you have the appropriate official paper chart onboard, all of the detail will be on it, so the answer would be to take a look at it periodically to ensure you have not missed anything.
Was that course you took held by one of the firms who make chart plotters, and was the instructor someone with an interest in selling as many plotters as possible?? And did you ask him if the charts in use on that plotter were officially recognised as being of a standard approved in accordance with SOLAS, because it’s highly likely that they were not. That doesn’t mean to say that they were entirely unsafe to use, but on start up of the chart plotter you are reminded that the display is only an aid to navigation and that it does not replace the need to carry paper charts !!
There’s nothing wrong with having two chart plotters onboard, as much as anything one could fail and leave you with just your paper charts. If that happened you’d need to resurrect those rusty navigation skills that people of my age used before the days of GPS and chart plotters. Those skills got us around the world, including the Juan de Fuca straits on our way to Vancouver, New Westminster, Victoria and other ports in that area both in Canada and the USA, and without mishap other than to upset the “the Old Man” one morning while he was having breakfast and I phoned down to him to report that I had a position after three days of bad weather when we had seen nothing but rain and mist, and which now put us about 100 miles ahead of where we thought we were (thanks to the Kuroshio current).

rbrtmccorkle · « **Reply #24 on:** August 30 2018, 16:52 »

Salty

Couldn't agree with you more. I'm and old pilot and in the realm I come from the skills you're referencing we call "Pilotage". I do carry paper charts for every passage and when it's daylight and good visibility it is my preference to use the paper charts for all the reasons you have listed.

At night and in the fog you are pretty much forced to rely on your instruments. In this instance where it is both night and foggy I found the ability to set the display on the chart plotter with radar overlaid and to have a second screen that was only radar to be very useful. For me the the ability to cross reference both screens increased my confidence that I knew where is was and the passage less stressful. Since making that passage and dodging several ships in the channel, I have also added AIS to the system. My chart plotter is only a 7" screen so overlaying the chart, radar and now AIS makes that screen very busy (A strong argument for cross referencing paper charts) but if you get caught and have to sail on instruments (something largely unavoidable in the Pacific Northwest) the ability spreed the data to a couple of screens, I found to be very useful.

The instructor at the boat show class - worked for a school prepping folks for captains licenses (I'll probably go there to get a 6-pak) so he was agnostic about equipment and his class was brand neutral.

Recently read an article by Andy Schnell in one of the Sailing Magazines - where he talks about doing away with his chart plotter and either using paper charts or linking his IPad in - in those situations where a chart plotter is needed. I know he teaches a celestial Nav in conjunctions with the Annapolis Boat show - so I'm sure his perceptive is definitely "old school".

Thanks for the feedback - one of the great things I like about this forum is the wisdom that gets shared.

Bob
SV Chaos