Removing fairlead screws

[Neil]

Hi

I lost my starboard aft fairlead in a bit of a blow when tied up at a pontoon. The three screw heads were torn off. I am attempting, so far unsuccessfully, to remove the remainder of the screws. I have not been able to gain sufficient purchase with the left handed extractor bits (tried 2 different versions) on a low speed as suggested elsewhere on the forum.

I am considering drilling around them, removing, and then refilling the holes prior to reinstalling with new screws. Any tips on how to go about this? What should I use to refill the holes?

Neil

[Ricd]

Can you access the bottom of the screws through the aft locket?  If so then you should find that the self tapping screws used have flat /spade ends. With pliers of mole grips it is usually possible to continue turn these so that the remainder of the broken screw thread screws its way all the way through into the locker.  Worked for me.  I then bought some larger self tappers and re-attached the fair lead.  I choose not to used machine screws and nuts with backing washers as I would much prefer the screws to fail than the dech to be ripped off.

good luck

[MarkTheBike]

Hi Neil
Yes, I had the same problem (with the bow fairlead) and, like Ricd, managed to screw the stumps down into the anchor locker. There wasn't room for pliers or molegrips directly so I cut a slot in the handle end of a long screwdriver bit to fit the 'spade' point and was able to get the stump out. Takes time and patience but better than hacking it out. 

good luck +1

[Ricd]

Aft locker on my boat was easier as I could actually lie inside looking upward at the job. Took about an hour to remove all of them.

[Ricd]

Just thinking, could also use a small adjustBle spanner on the spade ends, giving better leverage

[Neil]

Thanks, I will try this first before the nuclear option. I'll let you know how I get on.

Neil

[Scorcher IV]

Neil,
Just had the very same experience. The three screws where all snapped, I removed the screws by using these purchased off ebay for £3.29 (Diamond Holesaw 6mm Tile Ceramic Glass Slate Porcelain Marble Drill Bits Tool). These are hollow bits with a diamond dust glued to the edge
I put one into the battery drill and slowly in reverse cut down the outside of the damaged screw. After about 6mm the hollow bit snags on the screw then backs the screw out. Did not think it was going to work initially but was amazed when it did. This worked for two of them the third need an easy-out to remove it, the last one out was snapped near the top surface so there was more screw giving resistance than the other two that where snapped further into the deck. Once they where out I drilled right through and fitted the new fairlead using M6 nuts and bolts. Position the new fairlead first as I found that one of the holes was in a slightly different place than the original. Good luck.

[Bav32]

Is this snapping-screw-issue something to be worried about? How much force do you need to apply to get the screws to snap? In what kind of situation has this happened?

[Neil]

Scorcher - I just ordered some holesaw 6mm drill bits to try that as well. Sounds worth a go.

In answer to Bav 32 on how often this occurs there are threads elsewhere on this forum showing that it is a fairly frequent occurrence. I don't think the fairleads are designed to take too much with this design and attachment. Some consider the screws failing as better than the alternative, ie causing damage to the hull. Others advocate replacing with bolts. If the cleats were located at the toe rail we wouldn't need fairleads, but that is not the case.

[Ricd]

Bav32 I think they fail in situations where the mooring line is led backwards after the fairlead, at an acute angle towards the pontoon cleat.  In a big blow/swell you then have a bite from boat cleat to  pontoon cleat, all pulling backwards on both sides against the rear end of the fairlead.  This tends to lift and weaken the front end screw head which fails, followed by the others.  I now only take a breast line through a fairlead if it can be made up to a pontoon cleat that is either adjacent to or forward of the bow fairlead  or adjacent to or aft of the aft fairlead.  Otherwise I take the line over the toe rail obviously with something either around the line or over the toe rail to stop chaffing.  Like this, my boat has done several winters safely tied up in all weathers without any fairlead issues.

[Craig]

Mediterranean harbours are littered with fairleads, not just from Bavarias. After a blow at Vathi on the Methoni peninsula in Greece a few years ago, a diver on the boat next to us picked up 4 fairleads from 3 different boats.

Fairleads are not designed to redirect the mooring lines, merely hold them in a fairly straight line. Ricd is correct about the forces. If you have the line doubled back, the force on the fairlead is doubled.  If the bow lines need to go back on the dock, tie off to the cleat on the opposite side of the fairleads to reduce the angle. I'd much prefer a fairlead to give way than have a cleat pull out or damage to the hull if the screws did not give way.

Bavaria position the fairleads correctly in relation to the cleats for Med Mooring, bow to mooring and for the mid ship line to hold you onto a pontoon in a blow off situation. For usual side on mooring, ignore the fairleads and run the lines over the toe rail. They are smooth enough to not chafe the lines. Snubbers are essential if any wave action in the harbour is expected.



Craig
"Shirley Valentine"
Gold Coast
Australia

[Neil]

Update - managed to get one screw out with molegrips on the flat end protruding into the lazarette. Bit of a fight though. The other two may be more difficult, and may require drilling. I will have another go when my neck and shoulder muscles have recovered from awkward stretching in the lazarette.

[Ricd]

Neil, you might try a small adjustable spanner to grip the flat end?

[Neil]

So I managed to drill out one more screw with the 6mm bit as detailed above. Very satisfying when it came out. This screw was in at an angle and had partially missed the backing reinforcement, making it easier to remove. I started to try an remove the last screw, and this one is a pig. Tried molegrips and adjustable spanner without success. I started to drill it and packed it in after destroying 4 bits. I will try again soon.

[Scorcher IV]

Neil,
If you can see the top of the broken screw then use a very small easy-out. You will need a good quality small diameter drill bit to drill the pilot hole into the shaft of the remaining screw enough for the easy-out to bite. It worked a treat for me on the one screw that wouldn't move with the 6mm bits.

[Impavidus]

If you have access to a TIG welder spot a nut on the top then undo it with a spanner. Or, use left handed drill bit in a reversing drill on a very slow speed into the head. This will extract it if it is not too tight. But if you have a good set of mole grips and its not moving you will need to series drill around it to take it out. Then refill the hole with thickened epoxy. I would also make a plate for the inside of aluminium and epoxy and matt this in below decks. Before replacing the fixings with machine screws, nuts and washers. Use butyl to bed the machine screws and fairlead. Not Sika, or "mastic".

Ant.

Hope this helps.   

[Neil]

Finally got the last screw out. A complete pig. Having given up on the 6mm diamond holesaw bits I resorted to drilling around the screw with progressively larger bits. I broke about 4 bits in the process and then went for a 12mm diamond holesaw. This worked a bit and I managed to get a grip on the screw, which broke in half leaving the stubborn bit behing. I then drilled from below, which gradually let me get the remaing part of the screw and the bits that had broken off. However I now have a 12mm hole to fill and the other two holes of 6mm.
Thanks for all the tips and help on this, I used most of them at some stage.

Next step is to fill the holes. I have purchased a west epoxy kit for this. Any tips on filling these holes with the epoxy as I haven't done it before? It would probably need to be fairly runny to fill the holes without leaving air pockets. I will read all the documentation and check out youtube. Should I use the beads or the glassfibre filler on the larger hole?

Neil

[Symphony]

Tape over the bottom of the holes and fill from the top. Thicken the epoxy with the bead filler and press it into the holes. Redrill for the fastenings and suggest a backing plate underneath to cover the whole area. Epoxy this on and use penny washers under each nut.

[Neil]

If I was doing it again I would do it this way:

1. Drill out the screws with the diamond tipped holesaw
2. Fill holes with with expoxy (I used west system epoxy with microbeads which worked a treat), using backing tape
3. Pilot drill and tap the new bolt holes (use silicone grease) into the hardened epoxy
4. Attach new fairlead using sika flex and screw in bolts (silicon grease) and use nuts with the penny washers inside

The finished job is better than the original fitting and water tight. But in a blow I will be by-passing the fairleads and running the lines from the deck cleats over the toe rail.