Author Topic: Solar System  (Read 4256 times)

rbrtmccorkle

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Solar System
« on: February 06 2018, 19:45 »
hi all

Been looking at solar systems for my Ocean 42.  Thanks to Yngmar have a decent design concept for a sail arch off the stern.  Have been looking on Ebay at a number of combo Kits that provide Kit with a 400W Wind Generator and 400W's of Solar Panels.   The problem is that I can't tell if the Solar Panels are Mono or Poly (I think I need Poly as will have some shade issues) and the 20 Amp controller does not seem to be enough to my thinking.  I also think I want a MPPT controller.  Have tried email exchanges with the sellers and the response has been spotty.  So have the following questions given the above background:

1.  Has anyone had experience with these hybrid Kits - if so what do you think.
2.  Can anyone recommend a vendor, who I can call up discuss my specific needs to insure I order what I really want.

Thanks in Advance - Blue Skies and Fair Winds
Bob McCorkle
SV Chaos

Lyra

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Re: Solar System
« Reply #1 on: February 07 2018, 21:20 »
Regarding controller - check out MorningStar - I have one of their MPPT controllers and I think it is capable of working wit a wind generator. They have great technical support that can confirm (or suggest something else) and will generally respond to your query within several days.
I think you mixed between poly and mono - generally mono are higher quality/efficiency than poly, but not sure they are worth the price difference.
MPPT - my controller is MPPT but I am not sure about this as well if it is worth the price difference - on a boat there are so many things that will degrade the performance (mainly your inability to control the position of the panel relative to the sun) that I am not sure that MPPT will do much difference.
I installed a 30V 250W panel - the type which is used for solar generation on roof tops - prices of these are very low and the MorningStar controllers can handle these voltages (and higher) and convert to either 12V or 24V battery systems.
S/Y Lyra
B36 / 2004

Kibo

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Re: Solar System
« Reply #2 on: February 08 2018, 02:51 »
I kept my Wind and solar separate. Have a solar controller for the flexible panels and a dumpload resistor for the wind gen to absorb excess power. Works fine. Not sure if I would go to a combo but interested in replies for future changes.
Ian
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Yngmar

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Re: Solar System
« Reply #3 on: February 08 2018, 10:31 »
Forget kits, you'll never get the combination of the right stuff. Do a bit more reading and build your own system.

For charger output, 20A for 400W is indeed too low - the math is simple, your 400 W divided by the lowest (float) charging voltage of your battery bank (13.5V for AGM) gives you the max. charger output needed. For example 400 W / 13.5 V = 29.63 A. So you need a 30 A charger if you ever want to get the full capacity out of your panels. MPPT is strongly recommended for improved low light performance (cloudy days, earlier charging start in the morning and longer in the evening), and Victron is the gold standard here.

If you have multiple panels, you also need to decide how you want to wire them, in parallel or in series. Don't undersize the cable from the panels to the charger either. With an MPPT charger in series is usually the best idea, as this gives you a higher voltage, so no problems in low light and also a smaller drop on the cable, so you can use thinner and lighter cables for the long run from panels to charger (MPPT charger is to be placed as near to batteries as possible to reduce the length of the 12V run).

Victron has an Excel sheet online (look for Victron solar calculator) that will help you with sizing your system and lets you play with panel wiring (serial/parallel), cable sizing and other things to help you figure out what you need.

The free "Energy Unlimited" book is also well worth reading - lots of good advice there.
(formerly) Sailing Songbird  ⛵️ Bavaria 40 Ocean (2001)

heywoodp

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Re: Solar System
« Reply #4 on: February 08 2018, 17:19 »
Further to Ymgmar's excellent info, beware of cheap MPPT controllers on ebay. Most of these are actually PWM when you look more closely. I've got a 450W system, consisting of 3x150 Panels. these are all wired in parallel with internal blocking diodes. My controller at the moment is a PWM. I found out the had way as above and had to revert to my old PWM controller after it decided to die.

rbrtmccorkle

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Re: Solar System
« Reply #5 on: February 09 2018, 01:39 »
Great Info all - just a couple other clarifying questions to ensure I have it right:

1.  My impression is that mono Pannels are more efficient in direct sun - Polly panels handle shade better.

2.  If multiple panels are wired in series you jump the output, but if you loose one panel to shade - you loose them all.  Is this correct?

Blue Skies & Fair Winds
Bob

Yngmar

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Re: Solar System
« Reply #6 on: February 09 2018, 10:15 »
1. The big differences are in the manufacturing process and initially mono was considerably more efficient and expensive. But technology has advanced and efficiency is nearly identical now. Mass production has also leveled the cost differences. There are some very minor advantages mono has in high temperature efficiency and low light performance, but not enough to bother worrying about.

2. All good larger panels have internal bypass diodes per group of cells, which means you lose only the power output from the shaded group (not even the entire panel), but the current flows through the bypass diode, so rest of the system stays productive.

To choose your panels, first determine which size you can fit, as that's usually the most important factor on a boat. Note that the "standard" panel size in most large solar farms is 1x1.64m - if you can fit this size, it'll give you by far the largest choice of panels and the best prices. If not, pick the largest ones you can fit, at least two panels for MPPT series wiring (higher voltage = better), then drop their stats in an Excel sheet and calculate a few things from them:

Cost per watt (€/W): Simple. There are some companies specializing in marine solar panels and want to sell you one for 3x the price. Don't get ripped off. Many are just rebadged panels, others have somewhat more corrosion resistant frames. But the standard house roof panels are absolutely fine on boats (they have to pass salt-spray corrosion testing, as houses in coastal areas can see a lot of that), and usually more efficient as they have to keep up with the market instead of focusing on a niche.

Power per area (W/m²): Manufacturer efficiency specs are often poor and confusing, as some specify cell efficiency and others panel efficiency. This simple method gives you a better comparative value and includes space wasted on the frame.

Power per weight (W/kg): This is an interesting one. Panels and frames are not constructed equally, and weight matters on boats. Too heavy a panel is obviously bad, but too light can also mean the panel glass is too thin and can shatter easily, or the frame is too flimsy and not rigid enough. So avoid very heavy and very light panels.

Happy shopping! When I fitted mine, I used 2x LG LG300N1C-G4 - but that was early 2017 and the technology moves incredibly quickly, plus the prices shift rapidly too (mine cost £519.90, incl. delivery, which can be costly), so you'll have to do your own research. By the way, you can adjust prices - the same panel was also available in 290/295/305/310/315 watts at different prices - this is due to selection during the manufacturing process. The extra 15W cost a lot more!
(formerly) Sailing Songbird  ⛵️ Bavaria 40 Ocean (2001)

rbrtmccorkle

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Re: Solar System
« Reply #7 on: February 09 2018, 19:33 »
Thanks so much - you are truly a wealth of info!!

Blue Skies and Fair Winds