Radios, Chartplotters, etc. help please

[AndrewC]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to the forum and relatively new to sailing. I have just become the proud owner of a Bavaria 32 - which I have absolutely fallen in love with. I need some help please. The boat has almost no electronics on it - just a Raymarine ST60 Tridata. I obviously need to get a radio installed - was looking at the RAY 60 or the Icom IC-M323G. Advice would be greatly appreciated.

My next question is around Chartplotters - absolutely clueless here - any advice welcome please. I've heard of the Navionics app for iPad - would this suffice?

And then lastly anything else anybody can recommend.

Thanks in advance

Andrew

[IslandAlchemy]

As far as radios are concerned, I would recommend the Standard Horizon GX2200E, as it has built-in AIS and GPS receivers.  This means that you only need 1 antenna at the masthead.

The for chartplotter, you can go with whatever takes your fancy (Garmin 750 or 751 get good reviews), and you can hook your VHF up to it to get AIS data onto your plotter.

[tiger79]

Welcome to the forum!

You're basically starting from scratch, so I'd suggest you look at equipment which can be connected by NMEA2000 - this is literally plug'n'play.  Unfortunately, Standard Horizon radios don't support NMEA2000, so I'd avoid the GX2200E already suggested.  You might look at Garmin's VHF300AIS radio, which only needs one antenna, and which can allow you to make VHF calls directly to AIS targets when paired with a compatible Garmin chartplotter.  This is a good feature, worth having.

But you'll find you get as many suggestions as replies.  Your best bet might be to approach a few of the big marine retailers and ask for their recommendations; and their best package prices, which could save you a few quid.

[MarkTheBike]

Welcome to the forum +1

If you've got an android tablet or windows laptop/notebook then have a look at www.visitmyharbour.com (based on IOW, UK). They have a range of cheap (but really good!) plotter options just to get you started (and as a backup once you've decided on which big plotter to buy). Apart from their one-off £25 joining fee, their complete UK charts are £7.99, and are current so valid for navigation. They run on an app (details on the site) that costs about £6.50. I was already a member and had a 7" Nexus so my complete outlay was about 13 quid. The chart fee includes two unlock codes so you can have a live and backup (if you have an extra tablet or perhaps a smartphone). You don't have to join but the charts are a little more expensive - about £14 I think. The site also allows you to overlay charts onto Google Earth so you can look at the land in relation to the chart depths - useful if you're looking for a hole to park in up river! There's also a new AIS plug-in for the app being developed but it's a beta version at the moment.

My personal view is that Navionics is expensive for what it is, and didn't have the Google Earth feature last time I looked.

[IslandAlchemy]

Unfortunately, Standard Horizon radios don't support NMEA2000, so I'd avoid the GX2200E already suggested.

I did not know that (learn something new every day).  I just assumed that is was NMEA compliant.  Daft that it isn't.

In which case, you're certainly better with the Garmin unit that is.

[sy_Anniina]

Welcome ++

I was almost in the same boat some years ago, when I purchased my first 31ft (non-Bavaria) sailboat. We ended up sailing first season or two with paper charts augmented with Navionics app in splashproof Android phone. Later we installed Lowrance Link-8 AIS receiver VHF radio that took GPS signal from ancient non-plotting GPS navigator the boat was equipped with.

Now that we have a Bavaria 40 (2001), the boat came with Raymarine C90W plotter. I ended up installing again a Lowrance Link-8 AIS radio (low-price ) but have not yet integrated it to display the targets on plotter.

So depending on your immediate "must-have" requirements instead of "I-think-we-need-all-this" I'd suggest:

• Sail the first season with current equipment and paper charts, add Navionics or whatever app for if needed
• If close distance VHF communication is necessary, add a handheld VHF, you will quite likely need it for your grab-pack also later if you travel further
• After first season you may know better what you need -> buy any compatible plotter-AIS-VHF combination
• Note: plotter has GPS, so no need to have a GPS in the VHF

[AndrewC]

Thanks for all the advice - given me even more to think about 

[Ricd]

Hi Andrew

I have all instruments AIS/Radio/ST60 wind, speed and depth fully integrated through my Raynarine C80 chart plotter/MFD.  The system is about 10 years old now and is working perfectly and I am very happy with it BUT, at some point I know the MFD or some other component will give up the ghost and replacement will not be easily integrated as the technology has moved on, and of course will continue to move on.  Against that likelihood I have purchased the Navionics HD App for my iPad (£50) and have now used it extensively. To be honest if I had to start again this is what i would go for as its basically great and future proofed.  The Navionics HD App is great and identical to the chart on my MFD (Navionics gold) except that it is always up to date while the version on the MFD is 10 years out of date plus, i can plot all my courses on the iPad at ease either at home or down below in comfort.  I have a simple mount (£15) for the iPad on the binnacle rail.  If it were to be my only chart plotter I would probably spend a bit more cash and buy an up market mount for about £80 or even go for a iPad pod at £180.  The quality of the Navionics HD chart display is fantastic.  It also has auto route planning if required where you simply put in start and finish and it works out a safe route (it has your vessel draft/height, cruising speed etc in set up). If you plot a course manually, if your course crosses a danger or conditions outside of your vessel parameters, it flags it up as a red bold course line, forcing you to zoom in to understand the danger and make alterations.....RECOMMEND...spend £50 and try it before spending an awful lot more on something else.

Oh...and just remembered, yesterday I loaded a new chart app from an open source...its called Embark.  Its free and seems to be similar to the Navionics HD but have not really used it and some of the areas such as overfalls do not seem to be apparent  but that might just be me not being familiar with it. 

[tiger79]

Against that likelihood I have purchased the Navionics HD App for my iPad (£50) and have now used it extensively. To be honest if I had to start again this is what i would go for as its basically great and future proofed.  The Navionics HD App is great and identical to the chart on my MFD (Navionics gold) except that it is always up to date while the version on the MFD is 10 years out of date plus, i can plot all my courses on the iPad at ease either at home or down below in comfort.  I have a simple mount (£15) for the iPad on the binnacle rail.  If it were to be my only chart plotter I would probably spend a bit more cash and buy an up market mount for about £80 or even go for a iPad pod at £180.  The quality of the Navionics HD chart display is fantastic.  It also has auto route planning if required where you simply put in start and finish and it works out a safe route (it has your vessel draft/height, cruising speed etc in set up). If you plot a course manually, if your course crosses a danger or conditions outside of your vessel parameters, it flags it up as a red bold course line, forcing you to zoom in to understand the danger and make alterations.....RECOMMEND...spend £50 and try it before spending an awful lot more on something else.

How easy was it to get AIS data into your iPad to display on the maps?  And how do the autopilot and DSC interface with the iPad?

[ITIL MAN]

As already been said, you need a VHF so I can recommend the standard horizon with AIS receiver is useful and when you eventually get a chart plotter can be connected to that showing AIS targets on the big screen.

Chartplotters wait until you've sailed a bit and look at the boatshow so you can touch them etc and in the meantime use paper charts or navionics on the iPad.  I take my iPad when chartering in Greece and turkey as you never know what equipment they will have on until you arrive.  iPad has been extremely good.  Just make sure your iPad has a GPS built in.  iPads with a SIM card facility will have a GPS.  Don't need a SIM card but helps identify the iPad.  Enjoy most of all.

[AndrewC]

Thanks again - great advice. I think I will stick to Navionics for now and look for NMEA2000 compatible VHF radio. I have a handheld so will use that till the boatshow in September.

[Ricd]

Hi Tiger

Must admit have never tried ti get AIS on iPad.  AIS apps only work withing wifi/cellnet range and basically call up shared data on internet.  But for a novices AIS is probably low on the priorities, useful but not essential, very useful in fog but really you should avoid being in fog anyway.

As for integrating auto pilot, why would you bother.  My Raymarine MFD is fully integrated, has been for 10 years, but I have never had the the autopilot follow chart plotter route.  Plus of course when sailing and using auto pilot the course is dictated by the wind angle, not the course line on the chart.  When I engage auto pilot I simply require it to hold the course I am currently on, not try to match the line on the chart.

Anyway, recommend the iPad with Navionics HD as a starting proposition for a chart plotter.  Its £50 versus thousands to have a fully integrated MFD. Certainly need a VHF other than handheld so may as well get one capable of up scaling in future.

[tiger79]

Hi Tiger

Must admit have never tried ti get AIS on iPad.  AIS apps only work withing wifi/cellnet range and basically call up shared data on internet.  But for a novices AIS is probably low on the priorities, useful but not essential, very useful in fog but really you should avoid being in fog anyway.

As for integrating auto pilot, why would you bother.  My Raymarine MFD is fully integrated, has been for 10 years, but I have never had the the autopilot follow chart plotter route.  Plus of course when sailing and using auto pilot the course is dictated by the wind angle, not the course line on the chart.  When I engage auto pilot I simply require it to hold the course I am currently on, not try to match the line on the chart.

Anyway, recommend the iPad with Navionics HD as a starting proposition for a chart plotter.  Its £50 versus thousands to have a fully integrated MFD. Certainly need a VHF other than handheld so may as well get one capable of up scaling in future.

So you can't show live AIS targets on your iPad chart?  I think that's something which is increasingly useful, and no doubt explains why chartplotters are still so popular.

If I'm motoring, I often let the chartplotter control the autopilot.  It follows a route very well, and gives me time to do other things.

[Symphony]

The usefulness of AIS depends mainly on where you sail, particularly the density of the shipping and the way it affects you. So, generally not much help in open ocean away from shipping lanes but a real boon if you regularly navigate in such areas as the English channel or close to the SE England ports, for example.

[Impavidus]

Andrew. I have a similar setup to Tiger.     
Garmin 18 XHD digital radar
Garmin Map 820i
Garmin 300 AIS VHF
Garmin GHS? 10 Wired VHF Handset at Helm
Garmin  blue vision HD charts Northern Europe
Garmin GMI 20 wind x 2 port and starboard
Garmin GPH autopilot system with fluxgate compass

All the items are networked and I use Garmin Helm app to control the 820i plotter with my I pad.

This gives full function control of the Plotter, Radar, depth, AIS, waypoints and routes and all the other functions on the screen of the plotter including AIS target tracking and radar guard functions, anywhere on the boat. The app is free from Garmin and can be loaded to apple or android tablets and phones. The Blue vision charts give 3D terrain and charts as well as seabed/depth contours. The 300 AIS VHF is fully integrated giving all the normal AIS functions and alerts on screen on both plotter and Ipad. I particularly like the steer to wind function on the auto pilot, and the self tack. The safe route function takes the parameters of your boat and the charts, tides, and plots a routejust like a sat nav. I have not used it on a long trip but it seems to work well.  However, I did find that the original software had a few bugs, but it seems to be sorted with the updates that are also free from Garmin.  I like the fact you can set up a number of custom pages, split screens, data, and waypoint info and easily switch to these custom pages on the plotter or Ipad. Again any functions of the plotter can be displayed on both and controlled. Having said that, my neighbour has a B&G system and it appears to have many of the same functions at the helm with a big 15inch or so plotter at the nav seat. So it may be worth looking at the B&G too.
Hope this info helps.

Oh one other thing :-) you can use the Ipad to record video or stills of the screen for those "I don't believe you" moments. 

Ant. 

[AndrewC]

Ok - first step made - bought the new Garmin VHF 210i AIS. The idea is to integrate this with additional Garmin kit as I go along. Thanks again.

[Lyra]

Must admit have never tried ti get AIS on iPad.  AIS apps only work withing wifi/cellnet range and basically call up shared data on internet.  But for a novices AIS is probably low on the priorities, useful but not essential, very useful in fog but really you should avoid being in fog anyway.

I think you are confusing AIS reception via and AIS receiver with some Internet sites that display AIS info that is collected by some shore stations.
The latter requires Internet connection, and I would not rely on it, even when in range for Internet data.
The former is based on an AIS receiver on the boat and if you have the proper software will display the info.
As far as I know it is possible to purchase an AIS receiver that connects to an iPad (or an Android based tablet).

The usefulness of AIS depends mainly on where you sail, particularly the density of the shipping and the way it affects you. So, generally not much help in open ocean away from shipping lanes but a real boon if you regularly navigate in such areas as the English channel or close to the SE England ports, for example.

My experience is that an AIS receiver is valuable no matter where you sail. When configured together with the navigation software (or its own dedicated software) it gives you a simple and intelligent "radar". Obviously it is very helpful When you are in a busy area, but at these times you are alert anyhow. But when on passage, not really expecting anything, it is great to hear the AIS warning well before you can see a ship on the horizon.

[Salty]

Must admit have never tried ti get AIS on iPad.  AIS apps only work within wifi/cellnet range and basically call up shared data on internet.

I think you are confusing AIS reception via an AIS receiver with some Internet sites that display AIS info that is collected by some shore stations.
The latter requires Internet connection, and I would not rely on it, even when in range for Internet data.
.
.
.

My experience is that an AIS receiver is valuable no matter where you sail. When configured together with the navigation software (or its own dedicated software) it gives you a simple and intelligent "radar". Obviously it is very helpful When you are in a busy area, but at these times you are alert anyhow. But when on passage, not really expecting anything, it is great to hear the AIS warning well before you can see a ship on the horizon.

Right on Lyra !

However for all those that use AIS information supplied from internet sites, be aware that in a number of instances (if not all of them), there are significant time delays built in which would mean that it would be unwise to assume that the information provided is sufficiently up to date for collision avoidance use.

[Symphony]

The usefulness of AIS depends mainly on where you sail, particularly the density of the shipping and the way it affects you. So, generally not much help in open ocean away from shipping lanes but a real boon if you regularly navigate in such areas as the English channel or close to the SE England ports, for example.

My experience is that an AIS receiver is valuable no matter where you sail. When configured together with the navigation software (or its own dedicated software) it gives you a simple and intelligent "radar". Obviously it is very helpful When you are in a busy area, but at these times you are alert anyhow. But when on passage, not really expecting anything, it is great to hear the AIS warning well before you can see a ship on the horizon.

Well, I sailed across the Med from Corfu to Majorca and the only time it was useful was going through the Straits of Messina - where you could see all the ships anyway. At the other extreme it has largely removed the risk crossing The English Channel, although even pre AIS days that rrisk was very small except in poor visibility.

The point I was making is that its position on your list of priorities when you have limited funds depends entirely on where you sail and how useful it is to know what is going on about you. Sailors in Scotland for example have far less need than Solent based skippers.

[Yngmar]

If you're on a budget, an AIS receiver (no transmitting) can be cobbled together from an RTL-SDR dongle and some free software (OpenCPN). This works okay and costs about £10, assuming you already have a computer onboard.

If you're not, don't bother with a receiver, go for a transceiver instead, which can be had for £350 or less these days (that's what our HP-33a cost, which works brilliantly).

Whether or not it is worth having one depends much on where and how you sail. Here's a shot from this morning in Ria de Vigo with AIS targets and their tracks:



But on the other hand, in the quieter Rias further north you often hardly met a soul.

[Impavidus]

I have just seen this!!http://www.yachtd.com/products/engine_gateway.html

Cheaper that the Volvo part and all engine data can be shown on my 820i plotter..........

Looks like it will work on D1 D2 and D40 series Volvo engines. And will plug in to the NMEA 2000 bus.

Ant.

[Ricd]

What did we do before MFDs?  Really, 15 years ago we all sailed without most of this stuff.. A lot of it is useful and possibly interesting, but not essential!   Why would you want engine data shown on the MDF?  If the engine plays up you will know about it without having its data on screen.  Sorry but its all a bit too much.