Author Topic: Pointless Copper-coating on Bavaria's?  (Read 10316 times)

dawntreader

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Pointless Copper-coating on Bavaria's?
« on: February 28 2017, 14:46 »
Saw this on the hard standing in our local marina yard. It's a B37 same stable as mine but has been copper-coated. However, the keel has 'blown' and made a mess of it. Don't think it's worth doing mine then  :o

Yngmar

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Re: Pointless Copper-coating on Bavaria's?
« Reply #1 on: February 28 2017, 15:54 »
Iron keels must be carefully prepared, then it's fine. Lots of iron keels with Coppercoat around - AMC will advise on how to prepare it correctly. This one obviously wasn't!

Also, some Bavarias have lead keels and no such issues ;-) I've coated my lead keel in Interprotect as per AMC's advice and it's been sticking very well so far. Glad I did it, already made up the cost of the Coppercoat in avoided annual lift-outs (I anchored out in summer, hopped in, inspected underwater bits and scrubbed with a brush).
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dawntreader

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Re: Pointless Copper-coating on Bavaria's?
« Reply #2 on: February 28 2017, 17:12 »
Yngmar, thanks for the response. I wonder if epoxy would have held up had it been applied correctly too?

Yngmar

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Re: Pointless Copper-coating on Bavaria's?
« Reply #3 on: February 28 2017, 18:16 »
Have a look at the surface preparation instructions, all the detail is there: http://coppercoat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Coppercoat-Surface-Preparation-and-Application-Nov-15.pdf

Interprotect is a two part epoxy primer, so yes, epoxy does work. As AMC specifically recommended that one, that's what I've used, as it didn't seem worth saving a few quid on another primer and risking the expensive Coppercoat falling off the keel. I've scraped all the old antifoul off my keel, then used a drill "Aggresso" wirebrush to clean it up and washed it down several times before applying the Interprotect as per instructions. Once the Interprotect had cured, I've sanded that lightly to provide key for the Coppercoat itself. The instructions also mention anti-corrosives, which I assume is for iron keels.

If you're aiming to do this yourself (it's not that hard if you can follow instructions) and have any questions, do give AMC a ring, they're very helpful and always have someone who really knows this stuff near the phones.
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Salty

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Re: Pointless Copper-coating on Bavaria's?
« Reply #4 on: February 28 2017, 18:20 »
Yngmar, thanks for the response. I wonder if epoxy would have held up had it been applied correctly too?

The critical words are "had it been applied correctly." And the answer is yes, it would have held up. The problem is that unless the contractor is pinned down with a properly worded contract specifying exactly how the keel had to be prepared, and subjected to inspection by someone who can be held responsible in the event of failure of the coating. That also needs to be combined with ensuring that the atmospheric conditions are such that condensation does not occur on the prepared but uncoated metal of the keel, and throughout the period while the paint coating is being applied. In addition the epoxy coating needs to reach a certain thickness, and lastly for the coating to be tested to ensure there are no pinholes.
I was involved in just such procedures back in the late sixties and seventies where the scantlings in ship construction were allowed to be reduced, but subject to an effective paint coating (epoxy) being applied prior to the ship being floated. These coatings were applied both on the outside of the hull, and on the inside of the cargo, ballast, fuel and water tanks, and resulted in a huge headache for shipyard staff until they got the message. After that the days of the floating rustbuckets became numbered. However, ongoing maintenance to ensure that areas of damaged paintwork was properly dealt with, also became something of a headache until such time that jolly Jack also got the message that use of a high performance paint coating also required high performance in all areas of ongoing maintenance of that coating.

Steve burt48

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Re: Pointless Copper-coating on Bavaria's?
« Reply #5 on: March 13 2017, 11:20 »
Saw this on the hard standing in our local marina yard. It's a B37 same stable as mine but has been copper-coated. However, the keel has 'blown' and made a mess of it. Don't think it's worth doing mine then  :o
This is just too easy and just a everyday occurrence in the industrial coatings world. For a coatings contractor this is no problem, firstly its to be garnet or soda blasted to white standard or whats known as 2.5 micron profile, the cast iron while look sterile gray like a light gray primer, it then needs to coated within forty five mins of blasting as to not allow any oxidation to set in, with a zinc anode coating which is zinc oxide powder mixed into a alcohol carrier and needs to be up around the 150 micron dry film thickness. This then needs to be over coated with a epoxy primer at the 90um dry film thickness mark and then finished with a epoxy or 2K urethane top coat at around rhe 150um fry film thickness all of these coatings a day apart for drying times. Sand then you can apply your coppercoat anti foul coating with no problem of any electrolysis to keel or between the zinc rich coating and the copper coating as they are separated by the epoxy primer barrier coatings and the epoxy or 2K urethane top coats. It will then out last all of us.
Cheers

Steve burt48

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Re: Pointless Copper-coating on Bavaria's?
« Reply #6 on: March 13 2017, 11:26 »
Have a look at the surface preparation instructions, all the detail is there: http://coppercoat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Coppercoat-Surface-Preparation-and-Application-Nov-15.pdf

Interprotect is a two part epoxy primer, so yes, epoxy does work. As AMC specifically recommended that one, that's what I've used, as it didn't seem worth saving a few quid on another primer and risking the expensive Coppercoat falling off the keel. I've scraped all the old antifoul off my keel, then used a drill "Aggresso" wirebrush to clean it up and washed it down several times before applying the Interprotect as per instructions. Once the Interprotect had cured, I've sanded that lightly to provide key for the Coppercoat itself. The instructions also mention anti-corrosives, which I assume is for iron keels.

If you're aiming to do this yourself (it's not that hard if you can follow instructions) and have any questions, do give AMC a ring, they're very helpful and always have someone who really knows this stuff near the phones.
You will neeed a sacrificial coating as in a zinc coating then barrier coating to seperate the iron from the copper or youll be just asking for trouble ??? :o :o

SaltyLass

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Re: Pointless Copper-coating on Bavaria's?
« Reply #7 on: September 05 2018, 12:40 »
I know this is an old thread, but we have some coppercoat issues on the bottom edge of our 2003 B36 iron keel so I am reading all this with a mild sense of despair. It sounds very involved and complex

Symphony

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Re: Pointless Copper-coating on Bavaria's?
« Reply #8 on: September 05 2018, 15:28 »
I had the same after 2 years on my 33. Not really difficult to deal with. Best done in the summer as you need 5 or 6 days of good warm weather. I ground off the rusty parts back to sound CC. Rust does not spread under the coating but only forms where it is detached, so you get a clear line between the sound coating and bare iron. You need to apply the first coat of epoxy immediately then follow the normal coating process as explained in the CC instructions which are also on their website.

As Yngmar suggests talk to Ewan at AMC and send him photos of the areas where the coating has failed and he will give you advice on the process and which epoxy coating to use on the keel.


SaltyLass

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Re: Pointless Copper-coating on Bavaria's?
« Reply #9 on: September 06 2018, 15:48 »
As Yngmar suggests talk to Ewan at AMC and send him photos of the areas where the coating has failed and he will give you advice on the process and which epoxy coating to use on the keel.

Thanks for that. We video blog on Youtube so when I do this I will add a link to the video, but it will likely be weeks or months away  :)

Hopefully it will be useful to anyone else looking for information