Author Topic: Fuel hose, fittings, & shut-off valve? (Read 10387 times)

Nigel · « **on:** February 03 2014, 20:42 »

My new Racor Fuel Filter has 1/4"-18 NPTF threads*. Having replaced the filter, I think it would be a good idea to replace the flexible hoses; I have no rigid fuel hose. Am I correct that ISO7840 hose is what I need?

Ideally I'd like to have pre-made 1/4"-18 NPTF fittings on the ends, can anyone suggest a supplier who can do this?

It would also be a good time to replace the notorious Bavaria shut-off valve. I recall an article in PBO (I think) where this was done, but it was a bit of a kludge. Any suggestions?

* National Pipe Taper Fluid, I think!

sidtowe · « **Reply #1 on:** December 22 2014, 20:47 »

Can't agree with "kludge". PBO gave me supplier details and part numbers - easy to fit.

dunx · « **Reply #2 on:** January 03 2015, 10:38 »

Could you share the part numbers and supplier for the benefit of other? Thanks

singlefish · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06 2015, 13:37 »

Could someone shed more light on the blockage prone bavaria fuel shut off valve .

after having engine serviced , it subsequently seemed to run out of fuel , cutting long story short , fault eventually traced to shut off valve , which was taken out of system , fall back being mole grips if needed , did the job for rest of season .

I hear valve can be rebored , as prob is due to tightness of valve

any advice on ohauling valve I have or replacement would be most appreciated , my boat is a 2003 b38 , valve I notice looks remarkably like gas shut off too .

thanks in anticipation

dawntreader · « **Reply #4 on:** January 06 2015, 14:55 »

Article in 'Ask the Experts' in Feb 2015 edition of PBO on page 36 suggests some Bavarias are fitted with gas valves rather than fuel shut-off valves. They suggest changing to ball-type fuel cock.

Moodymike · « **Reply #5 on:** January 06 2015, 15:26 »

I have a PDF of the original PBO article, not sure about attaching due to copyright. These valves are one of the few inferior fittings on a Bavaria, I had to replace my Gas valve because it leaked in the closed position. If you send me a PM I will forward the article.

singlefish · « **Reply #6 on:** January 06 2015, 16:17 »

just subscribed to pbo

, but wont be getting that edition , sent my e mail by pm

cheers

dawntreader · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06 2015, 20:19 »

Extract of article attached

singlefish · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07 2015, 11:59 »

thanks all will be fitting new ball valve .

Nigel · « **Reply #9 on:** January 18 2015, 22:37 »

I bought the whole lot, not fitted yet. From my post in PBO forum:

My Volvo Penta MD22 (Perkins Prima M50) lift pump is 1/2" UNF. This was my shopping list ...

... It seems that 5/16" and 8mm are interchangeable.
8992 5/16" x 10 mm o.d. hose nozzle £2.54
8992 8 mm x 10 mm o.d. hose nozzle £2.54
http://www.bes.co.uk/products/071.asp

They may do the other fittings I need as well, I will scratchpad them here for the moment.

Tank: 8mm compression to 10mm hose nozzle x2 >>> BES 8992 as above ✓
Filter: 1/4"-18 NPTF male to 10mm (3/8") hose nozzle x2 >>> ASAP HOSE TAIL RACOR 1/4"NPT TO 3/8" HOSE 301953 ✓
Pump and return: 1/2" UNF male to 10mm hose nozzle x2 >>> eBay item number:271285361416 ✓

Tap: BALL VALVE 3/8 BSP FEMALE TEE HANDLE ASAP Part No. 405202 TBO
Tap: 3/8 BSP M/F elbow x2 eBay 111196757689 ✓
Tap: 3/8 BSP M hose nozzle x2 eBay 111269900680 ✓

Mini Hose Clips (or Clamps) rather than Jubilee Clips, better with small diameter hose.

singlefish · « **Reply #10 on:** January 23 2015, 15:50 »

what size is hose tail for fuel valve at shut off cock
??

sidtowe · « **Reply #11 on:** February 15 2016, 19:29 »

Hello,
Article was in the January 2013 edition of PBO - it's not the one shown in a previous post.
I gave my copy of the article away to a another Bavaria owner.

I got the list of parts from the writer of the article and I have now found the it as follows:
The parts came from Aquafax in the Hamble.
The valve is a ball valve PN50 FF TEE 3/8 BSP Part No 1-75200 at £2.89
The male stud couplings 10mm X 3/8 BSP are Part No 1-23800 (2 of) at £2.31 each

The fix was easy (and I am no marine engineer) and the only tricky bit was to enlarge the holes in the bulkhead to allow for the longer length of the new valve. Repair was easily hidden with white gelcoat and a label (fuel shut off) stuck on bulkhead to cover the old screw holes. Bearing in mind the low cost of the new parts, why oh why don't Bavaria fit a ball valve in the first place?

I have a new 33 Cruiser and it's the same old gas valve fitted - trickier fix this time, from a cosmetic point of view, and I have not yet replaced the valve. Took the valve off and blew through - lots of swarf from heater installation - even more got through to the primary filter.
I will blow through every few months - hopefully, I will be able to deal with the issue this way.

Happy sailing
sidtowe

Craig · « **Reply #12 on:** February 16 2016, 07:35 »

The 2 cases where we had diesel bug were because of the small aperture of the fuel cut-off valve. The gunk gets caught here and stops the engine. The filters in both cases had a small amount of gunk but nowhere near enough to block the fuel supply.

We solved the problem by installing a clear fuel strainer that collects any gunk but still allows a free flow of diesel.

The gunk in the photo had to be blown out with compressed air from the cut-off valve.

I would recommend installing a strainer ( not a filter) before the cut-off valve and leaving the cut-off valve as is.

Craig

dawntreader · « **Reply #13 on:** February 16 2016, 13:34 »

Following the discussion on this thread I have fitted an in-line filter between tank and shut-off valve. Took 30 mins including bleeding system. Feel more secure now :-)

Nigel · « **Reply #14 on:** February 16 2016, 14:57 »

Quote from: dawntreader on February 16 2016, 13:34

Following the discussion on this thread I have fitted an in-line filter between tank and shut-off valve...

I'm not convinced this is the solution. Fitting a filter with a small area is going to clog quickly, whereas fitting a proper valve makes the problem go away.

dawntreader · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16 2016, 17:18 »

Nigel, you could be right, however I am not addressing a problem (clocked up over 2000 engine hours), just providing preventative measures. I'm currently in the Canary Islands and have been refuelling via marina pumps and jerry cans filled from service stations. I had noticed some 'foreign' bodies going into the main tank when using the cans so have been concerned about that.

I'll provide an update on the state of the strainer mesh in a couple of months along with engine hours. The strainer is in an easily accessible location and could be cleaned very quickly should the build up of gunge make this necessary outside of an annual maintenance cycle.

Craig · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16 2016, 22:51 »

Nigel,

I swear by the in-line strainer. This solution requires a strainer, not a filter. The photo of the gunk in the strainer above would easily clog a cut-off valve or block filters but it did not. Gunk small enough to pass through the strainer will pass through the cut-off valve and lodge in your primary filter but not completely block the filter.

The installation of an in-line strainer before the cut-off valve is becoming a standard fix by Bavaria and Volvo agents in the Med.

I should also add that after adding Startron to the fuel and then motoring 53 nm the gunk in the strainer was gone and our filters were clean. I don't know why, but the Startron additive allowed Diesel Bug to build up over winter when the boat was not used. It appears that the Startron needs either warm diesel ( from motoring) or does not mix properly when tank is sitting.

It would be interesting to see if the filter recommended by Dawntreader gets clogged.

My view is that we don't need more filters, we already have a primary filter and a secondary filter, why install a third filter. The strainer stops gross blockages of the type likely to completely stop an engine. Partial blockages of filters tends to restrict flow at high revs but does not, usually, stop an engine completely.

The strainer is sufficient to stop gunk that will block the cut-off valve.

Craig
"Shirley Valentine"
Gold Coast
Australia

Craig · « **Reply #17 on:** February 16 2016, 23:09 »

Nigel,

I should add that increasing the size of the cut-off valve aperture may move the problem downstream. You may get big lumps of gunk clog the inlet to the primary filter. It would be easier to see the gunk blocking a see through strainer that seeing a blockage in a filter and also easier to change an in-line strainer at sea than change the primary filter.

The strainer will stop the damage causing large lumps ( size of a raisin ) that will completely stop an engine.

The inline strainer is not a work around fix but, I think, a proper solution to the problem.

The only issue I have with the in line strainer solution is that it should be located as close to the tank as possible and above the top of the tank. It should also be located so that, in the event of a fire, it will not leak fuel. I suspect that EU, British and most requirements for boat manufacture frown on a non-fire proof addition to a fuel line.

Craig
"Shirley Valentine"

dawntreader · « **Reply #18 on:** June 29 2016, 08:49 »

In my post from February above I said I would post an update:

Since fitting the strainer I have clocked 65 engine hours. Attached are two photos showing the debris captured by the strainer. I think most of this debris was lifted from the bottom of the tank due to motoring in heavy seas with low fuel. It may not have blocked the fuel switch but I'm glad it didn't go beyond the strainer

Notes:

The strainer I have fitted is far too small and will be replaced by a larger version asap. It clogged far too quickly and caused fuel starvation problems
Having the strainer located in an 'easy to view' location was a distinct advantage

Lyra · « **Reply #19 on:** June 29 2016, 11:54 »

Personally I do not like the inline strainer solution - you need very large strainer or you simply move the problem from the small shutoff valve aperture to a small aperture elsewhere. This is the purpose of the primary filter so I would, as suggested, replace the valve with one of a larger diameter.

Quote

I had noticed some 'foreign' bodies going into the main tank when using the cans so have been concerned about that.

Nigel Calder in his maintenance book puts a lot of emphasis on cleanness of the fuel going into the tank. Anything afterwards is trying to solve a problem that could have been prevented in the first place. Whenever I fuel from a pump which I have reason to suspect, and every time I fuel from cans - even if originally they are filled from a known clean source, I use the following funnel http://www.mrfunnel.com/Mr._Funnel/Home.html

Since your tank seems to be already contaminated, I would try to clean it. Not easy with these plastic tanks that have no service port. I guess the only solution is recirculating the fuel through a filter (or a funnel as above). Maybe add some additive during the process that will help loosen anything that got stuck to the tank surface.

dawntreader · « **Reply #20 on:** June 29 2016, 17:44 »

Thanks for the input Lyra. Cleaning the filter took five minutes and can be done at sea so it's no big deal - getting a larger one will solve the other issue. Whilst 'Mr Funnel' is a good product it's only viable when in port - I wouldn't try using it with a jerrycan on the high seas and so I use a self-priming syphon tube. Also, I know the debris came from the various ports where I've filled from their pumps as I only fill my plastic jerrycans from these or at the local garage when no fuel is available on the marina. Whilst I agree with the need to keep fuel clean it's not practical to do so all the time. However, as you say, it's personal preference

for the strainer

Lyra · « **Reply #21 on:** June 29 2016, 17:56 »

I also use a self priming siphon tube when at sea, but still stick the funnel to the input hole and siphon into the funnel. Can't say I did it at a very high sea but certainly not under the calmest conditions. Obviously I never delay refueling to when I must but to when I can.
Also my filling hole is at the top of the deck/cockpit while I know some boats have it on the sloping stern so maybe less convenient.

Craig · « **Reply #22 on:** July 11 2016, 07:37 »

The strainer I installed ( see photo in previous post) is a large strainer and stops gunk that could block the Off-On valve. It is large enough to stop gunk likely to stop the engine, either by blocking the Valve or the primary filter.

I think the strainer cost 3 euros and all I needed to do was cut the pipe and clamp the strainer on with hose clips. ( jubilee clips I think the Brits call them). The trainer I used has been used on numerous boats in Malta for years without problems and will collect years of debris before clogging. Many of the users there don't bother cleaning their tanks, relying solely on the strainer.

It is important to ensure clean fuel but even so-called clean fuel can allow diesel bug to grow. I think my first attack was because the "O" ring on the fuel inlet broke and allowed rainwater in. Also, European boats have FAME added to the diesel. There are more than 1000 organisms that feed on FAME in addition to the organisms that feed on diesel alone. Also, FAME clouds out at about -6 degrees, although I suspect that problems occur at temperatures above this.

My view is install a strainer and don't worry about diesel bug, just check the strainer every 6 months. If you are a worrier, add Startron to your diesel. As stated above, I have seen it remove the gunk in the strainer and have not seen any further accumulation.

Cleaning the tank is hard work and probably not do much

Craig
" Shirley Valentine"
Gold Coast
Australia

Nigel · « **Reply #23 on:** July 11 2016, 11:39 »

I've just added to my shopping list, Post #9

Mini Hose Clips (or Clamps) rather than Jubilee Clips, better with small diameter hose.