Author Topic: stock in rudderpost makes a banging noise (Read 14258 times)

russ · « **on:** May 18 2012, 02:04 »

Hi I have a Bavaria 42 cruise with all sorts off issues. I am in Mexico and I have dual wheels on the boat. Whenever I get into a sea I hear a thud in the rudder post as the vessel is pushed sideways. It as though something is inside the post that has come loose and is banging around. It sounds like it is at the top of the post where you place the emergency tiller. I cannot figure out what could be moving around. I do have some sideways movement with the rudder stock but is only millimeters The post appears to be straight and below decks it looks fine. I cannot feel the thud but I must assume it travels up the rudder stock. The wheels run free the bearings have not swelled. The steering works fine except for the thud. It happens as the boat heels over and is pushed sideways. This problem has been going on for a while now but appears (sounds) to be getting worse. Although it is hard to tell as you do not notice it when the weather is calm.

Does anyone have any ideas? I need to sail another 100 miles before I can get it looked at. I thought I would take the top bolts out but I understand that should be done only in a yard.
Please advise

jeff.sailor · « **Reply #1 on:** May 30 2012, 15:45 »

Russ, I'm hoping to see a reply to your post because I'm experiencing the same thing on the Bavaria 38 I sail, vintage 2005. It happens while motoring at faster speeds when I make a sharp turn. The Yard suggests this is a design issue caused by disturbed water flowing back from the keel during a tight turn and making the rudder oscillate.

I'm hoping there is some other explanation with a possible fix cause the shaking I've experienced is frightening.

Monique · « **Reply #2 on:** June 01 2012, 09:38 »

Hello Bav owners.

I had the same problem on my boat; other manufacturers have far worse problems BTW. The rudder cage in the jeanneau's is made of steel and rusts out.

Ours rudder cage is cast and anodised alu and manage more years than the Jeanneaus.

The build starts by inserting the bearing in the bearing carrier in the rudder cage followed by the rudder shaft inserted into the bearing then locked in at the top sides. The bearing is Teflon and wears out over the years, mostly because it swells when gorged with water and friction increases. Mine had to be cut out from inside the bearing cage.

If you opt for the US supplier I used, remove your bearing and send it to them. Wait 2 weeks and you should get a new bearing made of Vesconite. This material does not swell and I expect to have trouble free navigation for 2 decades out of this component.

http://www.bavariayacht.info/forum/index.php/topic,10.0.html

Above thread has all your needed info.

GL

Nigel · « **Reply #3 on:** June 01 2012, 10:00 »

Quote from: russ on May 18 2012, 02:04

Whenever I get into a sea I hear a thud in the rudder post as the vessel is pushed sideways...

Most people will tell you this is the bearings. On my boat it was the swivel joints at the end of the tie rod arms:

KAOS · « **Reply #4 on:** June 01 2012, 10:00 »

Hi Before i would suggest you try and tighten (not too much just enough to remove any extra droop) the nut at the top where you put your emergency tiller.

jeff.sailor · « **Reply #5 on:** June 06 2012, 04:56 »

Monique, I googled XPC Rudder Bearings (is that the US supplier you referenced) but came up empty. Can you give me contact info for the rudder bearing manufacturer?

Jeff

jeff.sailor · « **Reply #6 on:** June 19 2012, 03:09 »

Can't say I fixed the problem completely but I crawled to the back of the boat and found the steering cables very loose. After tightening them the bulk of the shaking disappeared. Jeff

Monique · « **Reply #7 on:** June 19 2012, 18:27 »

Quote from: jeff.sailor on June 06 2012, 04:56

Monique, I googled XPC Rudder Bearings (is that the US supplier you referenced) but came up empty. Can you give me contact info for the rudder bearing manufacturer?

Jeff

Hello Jeff.sailor,

http://www.xpcbearings.com/contact_us

If its the bearing, you will need a haul out.

GL

Mirror45184 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 07 2013, 01:54 »

Hi All,
Just joined the forum. We have a 40 Cruiser launched 2009. It has been used for club racing and short offshores. Quite soon after launching we noticed the banging noise when load was reversed on the rudder. On inspection we found that the top bearing housing was moving. The original design for the upper bearing housing consisted of a plate that clamped on to the deck, and several grub screws to help position this housing. The grub screws ad slipped and allowed the housing to slop around. The problem was solved by lifting the boat, aligning the rudder and through bolting the locating screws.
Cheers
Synergy, North Haven, South Australia

Arvid · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20 2013, 17:34 »

Hi Russ,
I'm also in Mexico with my Bavaria (47ft in La Cruz, Banderas Bay) and have recently started experiencing similar thumping sounds when going into seas or when motoring at high RPMs.
I called Bavaria in Germany and spoke to a very knowledgeable gentleman who told me that this sound is normal and that there should be some play in the rudder.
I asked how to check if the play is within spec and he told me that there are two ways.
1. Lift the boat and push the rudder back and forth and sideways. At the lower tip of the rudder there shouldn't be more than 4 to 5CM (two inches) of play.
2. Dive underneath the boat when it's in a marina and try to measure the play. This method is not as precise as 1.

BTW, another Bavaria 47 is meeting up with us tomorrow at Punta de Mita. Feel free to join us if you're close by!

Ziffius · « **Reply #10 on:** September 24 2013, 18:43 »

Was about to start a new thread about this issue which has developed on my 2006 Bav 39 during my passage from UK to Greece. Eventually pinned it down to the square metal plate with the elongated holes at the top of the rudder post slipping under heavy load. Tighten the screw bolts up as much spas I dared with a very short arm socket set but it still slips a bit when under heavy. Will think about the through bolt remedy over the winter, Mirror did yours have the elongated holes in the top plate for adjustment? Did the through bolts then enable you to get more torque?

Viking · « **Reply #11 on:** September 24 2013, 23:57 »

Mirror and Jagtor: would you mind posting a photo or two showing the items you believe cause the thump noises, please? Thx.

Ziffius · « **Reply #12 on:** September 25 2013, 18:47 »

Will take some pics tomorrow and post next time I get Internet access, cruising Ionian at the moment

Ziffius · « **Reply #13 on:** September 27 2013, 18:02 »

Hope these work

Viking · « **Reply #14 on:** September 29 2013, 22:43 »

Brillant - thanks :-)

kavok · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31 2019, 22:37 »

I also have this problem on my Cruiser 40 2008 twin wheels. The aluminium plate slip sideways due to the elongate holes. The two stop screws are not efficient when movements came from rudder (when load was reversed on the rudder.), I changed these two Parker little screws with through 6 mm bolts and nuts. Also I add up an down two big aluminum custom washers 8 mm thickness, bolted whith six 6 mm bolts ad nut. All side movements are now impossible.

Ziffius · « **Reply #16 on:** August 02 2019, 18:08 »

Looks like a good solution, the gap in the lower washer is S ufficient to slip it on without dropping the rudder post I presume.

kavok · « **Reply #17 on:** August 04 2019, 08:53 »

Yes, you can mount easily.
It work very well, no slip, no any noise.

lawrence_craig · « **Reply #18 on:** August 07 2019, 14:00 »

I had the same issue with mine on my 2007 Bav46. I particularly noticed it in swell when doing 2 x trans-Atlantic’s on her. Top and bottom bearing were fine.

I resolved the issue by increasing the washer size and putting new bolts on the top locating ring. The old washers were too small to distribute the downward friction on the locating ring. I also used LockTite to stop the bolts loosening and also put bigger screws in the holes.

I haven’t had a single issue since. Very unlikely to be solved by changing bearings unless they are destroyed as bearing failure wouldn’t cause that much play, just tightness in helming.

kavok · « **Reply #19 on:** August 10 2019, 19:49 »

Image of inside and outside.