Anchor roller conundrum

[Yngmar]

Some time ago I've bought a Rocna 25 for my Bavaria 40 Ocean, which is slightly oversized (because I want it to be). As the weather is finally a bit nicer, I'm fiddling around on deck. There's some issues with stowing the anchor, and some other anchoring related issues, all of which want a good, nice and money-efficient solution addressing them all.

The issues are:

• When fully winched up with the windlass, the anchor's roller bar hits the pulpit. It jams it in there tightly, which is actually nice except the pulpit being only mounted in 3 points gets pushed to one side a bit, plus the contact between stainless pulpit and galvanized anchor makes for unhappy chemistry (temporarily solved with that bit of white self-amalgamating tape you see on the pulpit).
• The anchor locker lid doesn't fully close because the shank is about 7 cm too high in this position.
• The chain doesn't do the 90+ degree turn around the gypsy it should be doing (this is a Bavaria design flaw).

Between a friend and myself we've had a good stare at the bow and come up with plenty of solutions, but none satisfying all 3 of the criteria, those being:

• Nice
• Cheap
• Easy

I've also had a look at the Rocna wiki, where there are several Bavarias, but unfortunately no good inspiration either.

Any ideas that don't involve buying a different anchor or making a whole new bow roller and address all 3 issues? Has anyone solved this before? Suggestions welcome!

Photo shows the anchor pulled hard in with the winchlass, and you can see the locker lid not closing because it sits on the shank. The pulpit is not attached and about 10 cm higher than its normal position, resting on the anchor's roller bar (had it off to rebed the leaky legs).

[geoff]

I drilled the anchor shank on my delta 20 [ocean 40] so that the keep pin holds the anchor a bit further out [so it wont jam]. You can arrange the hole so that the shank sits lower at the point where it passes under the lid. Geoff

[Spirit of Mary]

I use a Rocna 20 on a Bav 38 2003. I do not fully winch up the anchor and leave some slack in the chain. I drilled an addional hole in the shank and with the slack in the chain I can push the shank downwards to lock it in this position with the dropnose? pin in the new drilled hole. The locker lid can be closed with the anchor in this position. I see in the reply of Geoff he did more or less the same. I don't even have a higher section in the lid as you have. In winching up, the anchor turns every time automatically in the right position. Your bow roller looks the same as mine. Also my  former anchor (Spate) did the same.
The only problem is that by using the navigation lights the light reflects form the roll-bar. You can minimise this by making this bar matt black.
Maybe your oversize Rocna 25 is just that amount bigger that this is the problem. My Rocna 20 is also slightly oversized for my 38 but I know it is also used on Bav's 36 with only the light reflection problem.
Ger.

[Impavidus]

Yngmar, Hi.

Remove the anchor, detach the chain.
Drill a 10.5mm hole as marked through both the side plates.
Rotate the inner bow roller down, so a 10mm stainless bolt can be fitted right through and a nut fitted. (you may want to fit a sleeve over the new bolt too). 
Re-thread the chain over the new bolt and over the existing inner roller.
Re-connect the anchor.

Now when you bring the anchor home the inner roller plate cannot rotate upwards past the new bolt and the anchor will held be further forward.
This will cure the problems.

Hope this helps

Best regards

Ant.

Nigel: pictures both added to this post

[Yngmar]

I've spent some more time staring at it, then took the roller swivel off again and held both it and anchor up and moved them around until it fit. Then I marked the spot and drilled a new pair of holes for the swivel pivot (forward bottom of the bow bracket).

This lets the swivel turn inwards more, lowering the shank just enough so the anchor locker lid can close, and it also lowers the roller bar so it clears the pulpit. Sorted at the price of two drill bits (one broke and one escaped between the pontoon planks and is exploring the mud).

Problem #3 is not sorted (insufficient angle of chain turning around the gypsy), but it's not caused any trouble so far, so I'll deal with that if and when it bothers me (still have to remove the windlass for servicing).

Thanks for the advice and inspiration!

Edit: Oh wait, forgot the after picture:

[ANTREVELL]

Hi
On my 33 Cruiser . I made a channel that fits inside the existing bow fitment . It stocks out beyond the existing bow roller. I used the existing bolts and holes and reduced the width of the bow roller to sit inside the new channel. Di the same on my old boat.
Because it is heavy at the front the anchor will self launch when the channel pivots and help[s the anchor to reseat in its transit position . the channel is long enough so the chain and anchor hold the channel in place when stowed.

Regards Tony  Pegatha

[Impavidus]

I've spent some more time staring at it, then took the roller swivel off again and held both it and anchor up and moved them around until it fit. Then I marked the spot and drilled a new pair of holes for the swivel pivot (forward bottom of the bow bracket).

This lets the swivel turn inwards more, lowering the shank just enough so the anchor locker lid can close, and it also lowers the roller bar so it clears the pulpit. Sorted at the price of two drill bits (one broke and one escaped between the pontoon planks and is exploring the mud).

Problem #3 is not sorted (insufficient angle of chain turning around the gypsy), but it's not caused any trouble so far, so I'll deal with that if and when it bothers me (still have to remove the windlass for servicing).

Thanks for the advice and inspiration!

Edit: Oh wait, forgot the after picture:

Yngmar. Glad you sorted it. Looks like a stock item. Don't forget the elastic tape measure when they decide to randomly check your boat

Point of interest, My Manson supreme which is similar in shape, tended to wobble on the bow roller when we fitted it (after dragging over night on the standard CQR fitted by Bavaria  from new)#Pantsanchor (March 2015)

To prevent wobble and judder I got two pieces of open cell foam and put them in the gaps either side of the anchor.

I used an elastic scaffold tie (see picture) to prevent the foam becoming dislodged.

These ties can be used to tidy ropes, secure halliards and lines etc. You can even secure the wife with them!! 

 If they drop overboard its a few pennies gone. Get them on ebay or befriend a scaffolder   

Hope this is of use.

Ant.




 

[Yngmar]

The anchor sits pretty snug. I could add another roller at the top where there is currently just a metal bar. One with a groove the width of the shank. Seen this elsewhere and it would center the anchor and hold it in place. Will see if that is necessary, or I might do the foam thing.

In any case I like those scaffold ties. They look more practical than the bungee-with-balls type they sell at the chandlery. Thanks for the tip, ordered a bunch!

[sailprincess]

Hoping it is okay to post on this topic as I am having the same problem on my Bavaria, although my anchor locker enclosure is a slightly different style. I am attaching some pics. We cannot get the anchor to sit properly on the bow rollers as the shank comes all the way back into the anchor locker, but then it won't close.... so we need to somehow get this new Rocna (20KG) to sit farther forward safely on the rollers we have.... suggestions? We had a smaller Delta anchor on before and it never fit great either. We are going offshore so want a great fit so we don't have to worry about her!

[Spirit of Mary]

Hoping it is okay to post on this topic as I am having the same problem on my Bavaria, although my anchor locker enclosure is a slightly different style. I am attaching some pics. We cannot get the anchor to sit properly on the bow rollers as the shank comes all the way back into the anchor locker, but then it won't close.... so we need to somehow get this new Rocna (20KG) to sit farther forward safely on the rollers we have.... suggestions? We had a smaller Delta anchor on before and it never fit great either. We are going offshore so want a great fit so we don't have to worry about her!

Hi Sailprincess,
As you can see in my reaction before, I have this anchour on a Bav 38 2003. I assume not much different to a Bav 40. As said I have drilled an additional hole in the achour shank and lock the anchour down (Push shank down by hand with some slack in the chain) in place with the dropnose pin. I see on your pictures that you are missing this pin. Normally it cannot fall out.
I will be on the boat in Spain from coming Thursday. I can make a picture how mine is secured.
Ger

[Yngmar]

Hoping it is okay to post on this topic as I am having the same problem on my Bavaria, although my anchor locker enclosure is a slightly different style. I am attaching some pics. We cannot get the anchor to sit properly on the bow rollers as the shank comes all the way back into the anchor locker, but then it won't close.... so we need to somehow get this new Rocna (20KG) to sit farther forward safely on the rollers we have.... suggestions? We had a smaller Delta anchor on before and it never fit great either. We are going offshore so want a great fit so we don't have to worry about her!

That anchor roller assembly looks just like mine. I'd first try what I did - take out the pivot bolt (careful you don't loose the sleeve) and hold the anchor and rollers up by hand, moving them around (forward) to see if there's anywhere they'll comfortably fit without clashing with anything. It looks like you might be able to put it forward enough for the shank to clear the locker lid, or at least taper enough to fit in there. If so, mark the spot, drill two new holes, put the pivot there, sorted.

If not, you may need to modify the lid of your anchor locker, which is doable, but more work, especially with the teak on it. Maybe first have a look through the Rocna wiki, there's lots of photos from others having solved similar issues, it may give you an idea.

Whatever you do, do not drill a hole into your anchor shank. Rocna strongly discourages this for reasons of weakening the shank, and you void the lifetime warranty for bent shanks while increasing the likelihood of it bending. Quoting from the Rocna KB:

The steel of the Rocna's shank is high tensile and it is difficult to drill. After drilling, the exposed raw steel must then be re-coated in zinc, or accelerated deterioration of the anchor's galvanizing will be experienced.

A hole in the position normally desired will weaken the anchor's shank by the amount the hole's diameter subtracts from the shank's height in that area. For example, a 10mm diameter hole at a shank height of 100mm will equate to a 10% reduction ? it's that simple. The Rocna is a very strong anchor and there may exist enough margin for most boaters, but another consideration is that an unapproved modification could possibly have ramifications with regard to insurance should the anchor shank fail, although we cannot speak for your insurance company and its policies.

Lastly, should the shank bend and fail in the general location of where an unapproved hole was drilled, this would likely invalidate the warranty and/or guarantee on your Rocna anchor.

And on the use of retaining pins:

We advise against the use of pins in order to restrain the anchor. We receive many enquiries asking about drilling holes through the shank in order to accept a bar (or there exists the possibility that a standard pin will happen to fit) and we usually caution against this. The Rocna has a large fluke, and a body of green water hitting this while at sea can easily bend the pin, so jamming it. We have seen this happen on many larger anchors with strong restraining pins, and hack-sawing a steel pin in the dark while motoring around in circles after a hard sail is no fun.

[Impavidus]

Sail princess. Observation; I am not sure if the shackle is just a temp? But if not I would recommend it is wired with stainless wire to stop it coming undone. They come lose even when tightened with grips or a spanner.

Best regards

Ant.

[sailprincess]

Thank you for the feedback- yes the shackle connecting the anchor to the chain is temporary for the moment. We may try moving the roller farther forward, as suggested. Our concerns there is that the weight is then moving farther forward, and will cause the anchor to pivot downward and the shank to tip up.... really hoping we don't need to modify the anchor locker lid, like you say. I think I'd take the anchor back before doing that! LOL. We want everything to be extremely secure up there as we're going offshore...

[Yngmar]

We may try moving the roller farther forward, as suggested. Our concerns there is that the weight is then moving farther forward, and will cause the anchor to pivot downward and the shank to tip up....

The anchor will not be able to follow gravity when the chain is pulled taut by the windlass, as it ought to be. That's what is holding it there against the roller. You can then additionally secure it with a lashing when setting off, but remember that the anchor is a safety device too and shouldn't require lots of work to untie if you ever have to let it out in a hurry.

[sailprincess]

Ok all! I found another answer to my anchor issue!! The 'original' Rocna just does not fit on our boat's bow roller without having to modify it as @Yngmar did, which we decided we'd rather not do. So, we took the 'original' Rocna back and upgraded to a Rocna Vulcan! Fits GREAT on the current bow roller. No modifications needed and we are smiling. I have blogged about it here: http://sailingwithbloom.com/blooms-anchor-dilemna-fitting-a-rocna-on-a-bavaria/