Rudder bearings

[tckearney]

Hi I have a B42 2000 model.  This is recently purchased.   During the last lift out I noticed the bottom rudder bearing had about 2mm play side to side and about 8mm up and down.   I decided to tighten the lock nut on the top of the pintle but found that it was already at the end of the thread.  I also notice that there is a spacer about 15mm thickness between the rudder and the lower bearing on the outside of the hull. A similar spacer obout 8mm thickness is under the locking nut above the upper bearing.  I am wondering if this is the correct way about?   The upper bearing has about 1mm or 2mm max play side to side.  The steering is fine but with a very slight vibration at about 2000 rpm under engine (sail drive) , otherwise nice loose and smooth.  I have read the horror stories about steering locking up and can not decide if I really do need to change both bearings or simply add a spacer under the locking nut to allow further tightening upwards into the housing.  Can anybody please advise. 

[patprice]

Goodat tckearney and welcome. Hope you get many responses to your post, I have the same boat. I live in Tasmania but keep the B42 in the Med.

Unfortunately I cannot help you with the steering, I have not done any work on mine and hope it is all OK. But I will be watching this thread with interest.

Does your B42 have an autopilot that has a linear drive on the quadrant by chance? I am trying to determine if a Raymarine Type 1 is up to the job or is a Type 2 required.

My B42 is a great Med. outfit, really good to live on for months at a time. Yet to get her into blue water.

Pat

[Salty]

Hi tckearney, and welcome to the forum.
I don't know if you have tried this yet, but at the top of this page you will see a button marked "Home." If you select that button first, then at the top right of the page that next comes up, enter into the search area the words you want to search for, ie Rudder, or Rudder Bearings etc and the search will bring up everywhere within the forum that those words have been used. It's important that you search from the "Home" page because if you search directly from the page used for your topic, all you will get is a search within your own topic page.

[Nigel]

Try a new spacer. I had one made with non-parallel faces as there was a slight gap on one side of the original.

[tckearney]

Many thanks Nigel  This was something I was contemplating.   Yesterday I checked the allen bolts on the two quadrants and locking bolts.  It looks like they have been removed in the past, (probably with a 5/16 allen key instead of an 8mm, judging by the wear),  so I am wondering if the rudder has been removed in the past and the spacers have been fitted back the wrong way around, IE thicker one should be on the top with the thinner one outside between the hull and the rudder.  This may explain why the main nut holding the rudder in place is now at the end of the treads and there is still lateral movement in the rudder shaft.  Is there anybody that can verify this?

[tckearney]

Hi all I have removed my rudder and both upper and lower bearings.  Both came out as they should do with ease.  I had a little play in the rudder but nothing serious, (The surveyor mentioned it in his report) .  No banging seizing or rattling.  It was an easy job and just took about 15 minutes once in the yacht cradle.  Hardest part was getting the keyway out.  Having removed these I find absolutely no wear at all between the shaft and the bearings , both upper and lower are good sliding fit.  So I ask, why did I have play in the rudder.  The Nylon (PTFE) or whatever they are,  bearings look as new as does the  aluminium sockets they fit into.  I am now not sure what has worn, the outer spherical bearing or the aluminium sockets they fit into.  Any advice or size limits that can be offered would help. 

[tckearney]

Would anybody have a photo of what a worn lower spherical bearing and housing looks like.  I am struggling to decide if mine is worn or not.  It looks perfect.  It is 139.78 dia with no scoring marks or corrosion, which looks pretty good to me.

[MarkTheBike]

Hi tckearney

My surveyor found the same thing - a bit of play at the bottom of the rudder. Took it all apart and the bearings looked perfectly fine, although they were the 13 year old originals (as far as I know). Put it back together and tightened up the top bearing  threaded collar about a 1/4 turn. Not had a problem since. Could it be just a bit of backlash needing taking up? Don't have a photo though, sorry.

[Yngmar]

I've uploaded some of my photos, having just put the rudder back in: https://imgur.com/a/qJpSk

What happened is that the housing corroded (pitting) and that and some fouling and calcification caused the bearing to seize inside the housing, making it no longer self-aligning. That probably caused it to wear faster, plus normal wear over 15 years. In the end the rudder turned easily, but had some movement (perhaps half a millimeter) in the bottom bearing. I had to chisel the compressed bearing ball out and only after cutting and chiseling a slice out of it it would turn to be removed. The aluminium alloy housing had severe pitting (one hole went right through), despite being isolated from everything (indicating uneven alloy composition). It will have to come out eventually, but since I had quite enough big jobs for this haulout, I epoxied it up with some International Watertite and cleaned up the insides to fit the replacement bearing ball (ordered from Jefa). It also turned out the rudder post was not built to the plans (available from Jefa's FTP server) and was a whole mm less in diameter than it should be. In order to fit future replacements, the local stainless artisan made a stainless sleeve to bring it up to the desired 64mm diameter. When reassembling, I further noticed that the aluminium tube that sits on top of the bearing housing (and thus the housing itself), was completely misaligned with the rudder post, which explains the very one-sided wear on the lip seal (also replaced). Not surprised Bavaria fired JP3 after seeing all this.

The upper bearing was absolutely fine, but its housing needed rebedding on deck as it had been leaking.

The new Jefa housing is made of plastic by the way. Their new roller bearing ball was well made to exact measurements, but is fragile due to the thin rim holding the rollers in place (I cocked one up because I hadn't sufficiently smoothened the housing and it got stuck in there, then the thin rim cracked upon applying some force trying to turn it back out - expensive lesson). After a very thorough second cleanup of the housing, it slid in well and there is no play at all between ball and housing or ball and rudder post.

[tckearney]

Many thanks Yngmar,  an excellent description.  I am now convinced that I just need a new to spacer to pull the rudder shaft up a little as the lock nut is at the end of the rudder shaft thread.   I notice that there is a fibre/sponge type washer on the upper bearing and assume it is to generally tighten the upper spherical bearing up.  It is quite worn on my boat.   Do you recall if a similar washer was at the bottom bearing to do the same job.  There is none on mine.
 

[Yngmar]

Forgot to mention, if changing the lipseal I would suggest using  "Double Lip  Rotary Shaft" available from Simply Bearings UK at about £13.  This saves the seawater getting at the metalwork in the seal.

I've replaced it with a single lip seal that Eastern Seals customized with a stainless steel spring for me. The metalwork was coated already, and I slathered it in silicone grease to boot. As water rarely reaches the level of the seal, that ought to last a while.