Opinions on Cruiser 37 twin helm (2013 - now)

[tramsol]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and I'm looking to gather as much information as possible on the Bavaria Cruiser 37, the new model launched in 2013 and currently in production, in the 2 cabin layout, normal keel.
My general requirements are to be an affordable 33~40 foot cruiser that is suitable also for ocean cruising, has a good headroom and berth length (I am 185cm ~ 6 foot 1 without shoes) and is ready or easily configurable for single/short handed.
I therefore come up with a list of questions that I have and I would really appreciate if anyone that has sailed with the new Cruiser 37 will be willing to answer, even if only few of them.

Thank you very much in advance!!! 

1) Will you recommend the Bavaria Cruiser 37 (2013-now)? Did you had any serious issue?

2) Any word of advice for buying it new, new with a lease or used? Any preferences on the country from which to buy it new(I'm really flexible and I can sail the boat from where I buy it)?

3) Which optional gear you will absolutely recommend to include from the list of options or add if not available from Bavaria?

4) Which optional gear offered in the brochure you strongly suggest to avoid? Why?

5) Any suggestion on how to improve the mainsheet arrangement for single/short handed? Will leading the 2 main sheets back aft adding 2 stoppers be enough?

6) How does she sail? I've read mostly very good reviews, apart one from Yachting World (Sep. 2014) that was comparing her with the Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 379 and the Varianta 37, and they went pretty hard on the sailing performances of the Bavaria...

7) Are the backstays in the way you try to find a relaxed position at the helm?

[Symphony]

I have just taken delivery of a new 33. Unlike Peter my experience with Clipper has been the very opposite. Very easy to deal with, and did a part exchange taking my previous 37 (also bought new, but in Greece in 2001) in for a good price. Reserved the build slot in late April, signed the contract on 11 May with confirmed build in mid July. Completed on 20 July, documents sent over, paid final payment and delivered to Hamble on 25 July. Commissioning took a bit longer than normal because I had it Coppercoated, but handover on 22 August and sailed back to Poole on 29th. Everything exactly as ordered and works. I dealt with the Poole office because it is 10 minutes drive away from home, but everything important was confirmed straight away with Swanwick. The shorter the lines of communication the better. You don't say where you want to use the boat, but I had good service from Kiriacoulis, the Greek dealer - although that was 15 years ago.

Now the boats. If my circumstances had been different I would have bought a 37, but I can no longer justify owning such a big boat as most of my sailing is single handed and relatively short duration, so the smaller 33 is ideal. In fact it has almost as much space as my old 37 except for the galley area. Overall it is a far better boat. Better put together, better finish and easier to sail. Very easy to single hand and sails much better than older models - at least in the light conditions I have been out in so far. Motorsails very well - the delivery from Swanwick to Poole was into a F4/5 and it felt very steady making 5.5 knots at 2000 rpm.

What you choose as options depends on how you intend to use the boat. I chose shallow draft keel because Poole harbour is shallow and I want to be able to use all the anchorages there. In mast furling and bow thruster were the other main options. Also chose the larger (30hp) engine, but not sure there is an option on the 37. Would recommend a FlexoFold folding propeller - I have a 2 blade, but a 3 blade would be better on a 37. A rope cutter is worth having if you sail in areas where there is a lot of fishing (pots and nets). The "packs" - anchoring, navigation etc are almost essential and much better and cheaper to have it all factory fitted. Avoid having anything dealer fitted, although some things are not offered by the factory, such as galvanic isolator, battery monitor, inverter and the Clipper heating system is better than the simple factory fit which has only one outlet. You will see what options are most common by looking at the specs on the stock boats Clipper have for sale because they represent what buyers usually choose. We chose the standard mahogany interior but with the option flooring and blue upholstery, but this is personal taste.

Obviously can't comment directly on the sailing characteristics, but that comparative test you referred to used a boat that was well used and had a dirty bottom. The hull and rig design is just a bigger version of my 33 and based on that would be surprised if the 37 did not sail well. Get Clipper to arrange a test sail. The German sheet system is reported to be easy to use as the sheets come back to the helm. Important to have the aft winches, which I think are standard on the 37. Although the 33 has a different system with the sheet taken to the cockpit table would not go back to a coachroof mounted system such as on the older boats.

Like most new boat buyers I spent a lot of time looking at what is available from the mass producers - Bavaria, Beneteau, Jeanneau and Hanse and my view (obviously!) is that Bavaria wins easily for all sorts of reasons, particularly space, engineering, detail finish and simplicity.

Hope this helps.

[tramsol]

@Symphony: thank you very much for the feedback, really appreciated!
To answer your question, I will surely sail mostly in the Mediterranean in the next year while planning for bigger adventures. But I don't mind to get the boat in northern Europe and sail her down to the Med either.

[Symphony]

Where you buy depends on a number of factors. Suppose the first consideration is the denomination of the funds you will be using. If you have Euros it makes sense to buy in a Euro country. Bavaria ex factory prices (including delivery) are priced in Euros so every dealer's base price is the same, Delivery varies a bit according to destination, but not by much and commissioning will vary according to the dealer, but again not by much. Where you buy also has an impact on how much VAT you pay.

If you buy in the UK the boat is priced in £ sterling, with the list price being set normally once a year at the expected rate for the coming year. However when the rate is volatile as it has been this year the £ price gets out of line with the euro. In my case the final price I agreed in £s was lowered in part to reflect the gain of the value of the £ against the Euro. They could do this because I paid for the boat when it was built so the price we agreed was fixed and they bought the currency forward to cover it.

So, leaving aside the strict financial bit, I think you will find that most dealers will sell you a boat for delivery in another location simply because buyers in UK and Germany for example often want to use their boat in the Med. You need to look at what sort of support you will get from the dealer - and my view is that it is better to buy in the place where you are going to use the boat (assuming you can get a good price!). On the other hand if you are sailing from N Europe to the Med then it makes sense to buy the boat where you can keep a close eye on the commissioning and perhaps use it for a few months to get all the bugs (hopefully few) sorted before you leave.

No easy answer. You have to weigh up what is on offer from your perspective and your decision may well be different from mine. I bought my first boat through a charter management deal in Greece which suited me at the time as it gave me essentially free holiday use for the 6 or 7 years up to my retirement and I got a boat where I wanted it for less than 50% of the cost. Not for everybody, but there are very flexible deals available now with more owner usage and shorter contract times as builders are very keen to shift boats and charter operators keen to get new boats on their fleets.

[tiger79]

I've had my Cruiser 37 for a year now.  I like it very much.  I'm not a particularly skilled or ambitious sailor, but it seems to sail better than I expected.  It's quick and stable, and surprisingly dry (indeed I rarely have the sprayhood up).  I specified the optional extra pair of winches at the aft end of the coamings, and these certainly help with single-handing (in fact, using delayed auto-tack on the autopilot makes single-handing a doddle).  The split backstay doesn't seem to intrude, and is useful for wrapping an arm around whilst helming.

The 2-cabin version is the better choice unless you need to accommodate loads of people.  The 2-cabin gives you a proper chart table, a bigger aft cabin, a bigger heads with an excellent shower and wet locker, and a huge port cockpit locker.  The ladder for the swim platform stows vertically in the cockpit locker and gives easy access to it.

In terms of equipment, the basic specification is fairly basic, so I specified quite a lot of options.  Bavaria's package offers are quite good value, so I have the Smart Sailing pack, the Comfort pack, the Anchoring pack, and the Navigation pack.  I also added the upgrade to the D1-30 engine, in-mast furling, Garmin HD radar, a bow thruster, the Fusion audio system and the LFS pack of jackstays and harness points.  I'd recommend all of these options as being quite desirable, and the benefit of buying them as factory options is that you know everything is properly and professionally installed.  In the first year, I've had no issues with any of the factory-fitted equipment.  The navigation electronics work flawlessly and integrate seamlessly, and the autopilot is superb.  The Jefa steering is light and robust, and Bavaria fit the Jefa linear drive for the autopilot.

Having sold my previous boat because the teak deck was getting close to needing a very expensive replacement, I avoided teak on the new one.  Instead, I specified DuraDeck everywhere.  It looks good, it's easy to keep clean, it's unlikely to wear out, and it seems quite grippy even when wet.  One downside of DuraDeck is that it does seem to absorb sunlight and get quite hot, so for Med use I might not want it on the side decks.

Other options I'd recommend are Ocean Line flooring (which looks much nicer), a microwave (fitted very neatly in the factory), and hot air heating (although you may not want that if you're based in the Med).  I specified retro-fit heating, in order to get a hot air outlet in the heads, so this is perhaps the only factory option I'd suggest you avoid.

There's very little I don't like about the boat, which seems to have been very carefully thought out.  The cockpit table is perhaps a little wide when folded down, but it's a good bracing point.  The cockpit seats are a little short for sunbathing, but I guess this is a trade-off for having twin wheels, and anyway we don't get much sun in the UK!  The berth cushions aren't great. The fuel gauge is hopeless.

In terms of where you might buy, I'd suggest you should buy close to where you're going to eventually use the boat.  Then, if issues do arise, your supplying dealer will be fairly accessible.  Based on my experiences, I couldn't recommend the UK Bavaria dealers at all, and indeed if I were to buy another Bavaria I'd probably choose a dealer in somewhere like the Netherlands.

[tramsol]

@Symphony @tiger79
thanks a lot both for your thoroughly replies, really appreciated!

I'll bought in Euros and I plan to be mostly on the Med in the first year or two, then who knows
For this I was thinking to get the delivery somewhere "near" the Bavaria factory on the Med side (Northern Tyrrenian in France/Italy or Northern Adriatic in Italy/Slovenia) unless I found strong reasons to make it worth to have it on the Baltic or North Sea. But for now it doesn't look the case.

Regarding the options I pretty much agree.
I'll investigate more on the DuraDeck, is not the first time I've read about being hot and could be a problem in warmer climates where I plan to sail.
About the in-mast furling main I'm still in doubt, they are usually worst in terms of performances and although they have vertical batten to easy the furl operations I'm a bit worried that the sail could get stuck while furling in with no wind or strong winds. Of course are easier to operate single handed although with lazy jacks and reefing lines also a standard main is pretty manageable.

[Symphony]

Best location for delivery is Slovenia. Most of the European dealers will arrange delivery and commissioning there. My first boat was done at Isola. Avoid Italy as the costs and hassle are high for road transport there.

Think your fears about in mast are unfounded. The Selden system is well developed and tried. Provided you follow the instructions (which are not difficult) there is no problem in either setting or reefing. Never had a problem with my last boat in the 15 years I had it, and the new one is even easier to operate because of detail changes to reduce friction. Of course ultimate performance is not as good as a fully battened main, but in reality passage times are very little different, and if anything you can get more out of the boat because the sail area is infinitely variable. This makes it easy to adjust sail area to suit conditions rather than being limited to the big loss of area in the main when you have a fixed reef. Easy to balance the boat so that it sails itself putting less load on the autopilot.

The standard sails are a bit basic and you might consider specifying the upgrade if you are planning a lot of cruising under sail. Avoid battens as there is an added potential of restricting furling. The important thing to remember is that the mainsail is cut flat and you control shape with the outhaul just as you control a jib to alter the draught of the sail. I had the jib of mine recut to improve the luff entry and if seems to work. Also the standard sails do not have any UV protection so my sailmaker added this to both sails and reinforced the clew of the main at the same time.

[Craig]

We purchased our Bavaria 38 at the end of 2008. (launched Feb 2010). 

As Symphony states, Slovenia is the cheapest place in the Med to launch. Koper and Isola are easy to get to. We flew to Marc Polo airport near Venice and took the train to Trieste. It was then a short taxi ride to Koper.

The trucking from the Bavaria factory involves a night trip along the Autobarns in Germany, a day trip through Austria then a short night trip into Slovenia. We launched in Koper where the mast was stepped and most of the gear was added. Our first sail was 18nm to Monfalcone in Italy to have the TV and watermaker installed. Monfalcone is a great place to have extras added as it have great chandleries and a large ship building industry.  Most Bavaria agents and many of the charter companies launch here because of the low cost. Italy require a different police escort for each Police district the transport ges through, thus making Italy a no go area for trucking yachts.

We bought our boat through the Australian agents for Bavaria, North/South Yachting but the commissioning was done by the Maltese agent, Anthony Camilleri. We relied on Anthony's advice regarding extras and never had a problem. Because of the large number of Bavarias in Croatia and Greece you will not be far from a good service area if needed. If you are happy with buying in the Med I would strongly recommend the Maltese agent due to their central location. Anthony was also the Seldan agent for over 20 years so he will set up the rigging properly. If you are buying in Britain, I think you should stick with Clipper because they will be able to service locally. If buying in Malta you may be able to reduce your VAT.

The Volvo D1-30 would be ideal for the new 37. It is a good size for our 38 fitted with a 3 blade folding prop but I would recommend the D2-40 for a larger boat.

Have the Keel fitted at the Bavaria factory and get them to fit the basic chartplotter if you are getting a dedicated system. I would get everything else fitted at launch.  Make sure you have 100m of chain for the Med. We purchased our bedding, spare computer etc, at Harvey Norman and our tool kit etc. at Obi. Both are walking distance from the launch facility in Koper. 

We had our anti-fouling applied by "Sleepy" the trucking agent and fit-out supplier that has a building next to the Bavaria factory. Our anti-fouling only lasted 6 months before we had a heap of coral worm. I think this was partly because our boat sat in the snow for 2 months before launch. Get anti-fouling at launch if possible.

Battened Main will allow sailing to about 30 degrees to apparent wind while a furling main gets to about 35 on most Bavarias. I have sailed a Bavaria 50 with vertical battens on a furling main and got to 30 degrees of apparent wind.  The new in-mast furling systems are much better than the old systems but you do need the correct boom height and keep a good angle to the wind to ensure easy furling without creases. Not hard to master.

We were lazy with our blogs but if you look at http://shirleyvalentine2010.blogspot.com you can get a view of the low-loaders they use for the transport and the launch in Koper.

Craig
s/v "Shirley Valentine"



 

[Symphony]

Just a couple of observations from craig's post.

Much has changed in the design of Bavarias since 2008 and the newer Farr designs are much better at windward work. My 33 with in mast is happy getting to 30 degrees, something my old 37 would never do.

Having extras fitted at the factory is the way to go now. Not only are they better installed but significantly cheaper than having them installed by third parties after delivery. Rather than using conventional antifoul it is worth considering getting the boat Coppercoated from new. Although more expensive it will pay for itself through less need to haul out and no antifouling for typically 10 years.

It is not possible fit 100m of chain in the latest lockers, which along with the change to Lewmar (rather than Lofrans) windlass is the one backward step with the latest designs. The standard chain length is 50m and I have another 30m of warp with an eye so that it can be attached for extra length. Not ideal.

Agree with Craig about Anthony Camilleri.

[Impavidus]

You may wish to read this other post.......

http://www.bavariayacht.info/forum/index.php/topic,727.msg5960.html#msg5960

Best regards.

Ant.