Author Topic: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?  (Read 3763 times)

Jam

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Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« on: March 02 2015, 22:01 »
Hi
In process of doing up a bavaria 38 ocean, stanchion leaks, saildrive seals and gasket replacement and leaking cockpit drains. All routine stuff as yacht was underused and neglected a bit.  One area which I was surprised was there are no seacocks on cockpit drains on exit through hull.  There is are long stainless steel tubes which extend high into engine compartment and linked to drains in cockpit to exhaust hose. 
Has anyone had problems with these where they exit to hull.  Worries me a bit as all other boats I've had have sea cocos at all exits from the hull, especially underwater.  Think Bavaria get away with not fitting as as tubes are long enough to finish above waterline.
John

geoff

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #1 on: March 03 2015, 09:01 »
My 40 ocean has the same system and whilst it has always niggled a bit, but after 15years without a problem maybe I will just keep on looking at them each year on lift out cheers Geoff

Jam

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #2 on: March 04 2015, 23:25 »
Ill probably do the same, just thought it was unusual.  Just bought the boat having had a Westerly Fulmar.  How do you find your boat? Planning on changing saildrive seals and gator...have you done this yourself....any tips appreciated
John

geoff

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #3 on: March 05 2015, 10:03 »
I have owned Alchemy [ocean 40] from new in 2001. Apart from smokey Volvo problems the boat has been very good indeed. The hull/ deck join developed a leak , cured by removing the wooden toe rail capping raking out the poorly applied sealant and refilling with sika. I did the saildrive gaiter a few years ago. It is quite easy on center cockpit  [plenty of room]. The engine only needs to move forward about 2in on wooden blocks and little rollers [ long 1/2 in bolts]. cheers Geoff

Jam

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #4 on: March 05 2015, 22:58 »
Thanks for info, appreciated
John

rdw49

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #5 on: August 05 2015, 11:21 »
I have owned a 38 ocean from new, bought in 1998. It has been all over the med since 2001 and 3 years ago I put it back in the water in Greece after a winter ashore. I  noticed there was a pin hole spray of sea water from one of the cockpit drain stainless steel tubes in the engines room about 75mm from the hull. It was easy to make a temporary repairs with some putty, dinghy repair patch and a jubilee clip. I have never had a problem with through hull gland though. Other than that its been a great boat and very comfortable

Yngmar

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #6 on: August 06 2015, 10:26 »
My 40 Ocean has the same ones. I think there are no seacocks because closing them would cause the cockpit to turn into a swimming pool with water running down the companionway instead. I've tied a big wooden bung to each and keep an eye on them. When I bought the boat, the surveyor had this to say about the 15 year old cockpit drains:

Quote
The cockpit drains (approx. 50mm internal dia) were considered adequate. They drained vertically down through the engine compartment. Stainless steel tubes (up to the water line) and rubber hoses (up to the cockpit sole) were secure below the deck and through the hull. Clips secure to the hammer.
Sailing Songbird (Blog & YouTube)  ⛵️ Bavaria 40 Ocean (2001)

Kaptajnen

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #7 on: August 06 2015, 20:10 »
Strangely, our Bavaria 38 Ocean Center Cockpit (2000) came factory equipped with Bronze thru-hulls for the 4 cockpit drains. We always leave them open, but "exercise" them by opening and closing them every so often.

rdw49

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #8 on: August 07 2015, 21:19 »
That interesting. so you have 4 drains not 2 and each has a bronze sea cock? I Guess they are 38mm? 

AB1707

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #9 on: August 09 2015, 19:55 »
I have a 1997 Ocean, or as Germans say "Exclusive".

We have two vertical cockpit drains with buoyant wooden mushroom bungs aft and two smaller drains forward that feed into the vertical ones.

The aft ones are rigid and cause me know concern whatsoever. Well, except that I could drop the engine key or wheel securing nut down them when I have the bungs out.

I certainly wouldn't consider putting seacocks on them but it's not the first time I'd be wrong.

Yngmar

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #10 on: August 31 2019, 16:51 »
(Warning: old thread revival)

Ours finally both started leaking after 18 years of age. Looks like corrosion at the welds in several spots. Small leaks so far and we've patched them up in the water with underwater epoxy for now.

Will have to replace them both at the next haulout. Plan is to use Tru-Design skin fittings and seacocks, then some sturdy hose. No riser tubes, as I was always worried about something heavy using them as leverage to break out the skin fittings. Thus the seacocks, enabling the hose to be removed at least, and since there's two, close one in case of a leak, which would've now made me sleep easier while they were leaking :)

Still gotta measure if the large Tru-Design sea-cocks fit in the space, as they're both near the engine room walls. Also unfortunately Tru-Design doesn't make recessed (flush fit) skin fittings in 2" (50mm) - and nobody else seems to either. Probably will have to use a standard domed one and Dremel some space before fitting it with thickened epoxy so it's flush to the hull. This is mostly desirable as they are in the area where the lift slings go, and also because the original ones are recessed too. There should be sufficient hull thickness in the area, the original layup has big mounds built up around the stainless skin fittings.
Sailing Songbird (Blog & YouTube)  ⛵️ Bavaria 40 Ocean (2001)

Symphony

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #11 on: August 31 2019, 17:46 »
Another timely reminder of the potential danger of using stainless for skin fittings even if apparently encapsulated in GRP. You cannot see any small pockets where stagnant water can lie causing crevice corrosion. Similar applies to stainless bodied valves with potential dead spots in threads or where the ball meets the stainless. Bronze/DZR or plastic to be safe for these applications.

Yngmar

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #12 on: July 23 2020, 18:59 »
Revival #2 - just doing this job. Have removed the old stainless cockpit drain standpipes with welded on skin fittings today. They've been leaking since last summer, we then patched them up with underwater epoxy (freediving) and finally got around to doing our "spring" haulout.

First I gave them a good tug, as I wanted to know if they were teetering on the edge of snapping off and the long levers inside the engine room have always worried me a bit. Luckily, they hardly moved and nothing snapped off, so that part wasn't too worrying.

They then came out reasonably well. I put some release spray on the nuts and washer and then drove the huge (75mm across flats) nuts lose with a hammer and screwdriver, as they already both had chisel notches in the right spots. Once they started turning, I got a clamp on (didn't have a big enough adjustable spanner and it's night impossible to get to a hardware store from the Aktio peninsula - shuttlebusses are corona-cancelled). Some cussing for lubricant and the nuts came off eventually. Then disconnected the hose at the top and pushed the fittings out the bottom. Had to stab at the sealant a bit to losen them.

Out they both came. Both had significant crevice corrosion on the outside AND inside of the skin fitting (on portside, the original sealant had partially failed) and some very fine pitting, which was the source of the leak - water was seeping through the stainless at the welds, and there's several welds, one on the skin fitting flange and another at the top end where the threaded section joins the standpipe.

There were also backing plates, which I assumed were made of fibreglass (they were covered in sealant on the inside, so couldn't tell). To my surprise they turned out to be made of plywood. One came out intact and dry, the other had gotten wet from pitted stainless leaking, delaminated and fell to pieces when I removed it.

On the upside, the hole is slightly larger but not too large for the 2" Tru-Design seacocks, and there is enough room for the new skin fitting in the recess. On the downside, the inside and outside of the hull were not quite parallel, something the ample sealant previously compensated.

So I'm doing some grinding and will install the new skin fittings with thickened epoxy tomorrow, at a slight angle and flush to the hull so they cannot be harmed by lifting slings. Then fair the outside somewhat before applying some more Coppercoat. Wish us luck! :)

Oh! And the 2" Tru-Design ball valve with load bearing collar fits in the corners of the engine room, but only just. Had to remove the handle to dry-fit and also cut off a little bit of noise insulation foam, but that was easy.
Sailing Songbird (Blog & YouTube)  ⛵️ Bavaria 40 Ocean (2001)

Yngmar

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #13 on: July 25 2020, 20:46 »
Finished the replacement today. Faired the outside so it's completely flush and applied some flowcoat to match. Will be Coppercoated before we relaunch.

Also cleaned up the old washers and nuts - both had crevice corrosion on them too. If you have a CC (Ocean) Bavaria with the stainless standpipe setup on the cockpit drains, I would strongly advise you to remove them for inspection.

Inside the engine room, the 2" Tru-Design ball valves + LBCs fitted on with only minor re-arranging of some water hoses and cables. And of course I needed some very expensive 51mm exhaust hose as the newer pieces without the standpipes were longer.

Glad it's done and will never corrode again :)

Sailing Songbird (Blog & YouTube)  ⛵️ Bavaria 40 Ocean (2001)

Jeffatoms

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #14 on: July 26 2020, 17:25 »
We have two aft drains in our 1998 B38Ocean. No seacocks. Does anyone else have fiberglass tubes as opposed to SS?  we are wondering if ours were replaced in the past or if fiberglass was a change made in production??

blue bear

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #15 on: July 28 2020, 00:25 »
I have a 99 B38 Ocean. Twin SS drain tubes, no seacocks.

A bit off topic, but related: Did have a fresh water leak where the drain scuppers lost their seal against the cockpit sole. Any rain would create a puddle in the engine room. Tried to remove the scuppers for resealing, but they were really stuck on the hose. Luckily there was just enough stretch to clean the surfaces and place a small bead of butyl in there. Been nice and dry since.

Joe

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #16 on: August 01 2020, 16:54 »
We have two aft drains in our 1998 B38Ocean. No seacocks. Does anyone else have fiberglass tubes as opposed to SS?  we are wondering if ours were replaced in the past or if fiberglass was a change made in production??

We also have fibreglass tubes without seacocks on our B38 Ocean (#5). As far as I know this was standard on the first boats but soon has been changed (like many other things - cost reduction ??).

Markus

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #17 on: August 01 2020, 17:26 »
We have two aft drains in our 1998 B38Ocean. No seacocks. Does anyone else have fiberglass tubes as opposed to SS?  we are wondering if ours were replaced in the past or if fiberglass was a change made in production??

We also have fibreglass tubes without seacocks on our B38 Ocean (#5). As far as I know this was standard on the first boats but soon has been changed (like many other things - cost reduction ??).

Just out of interest: are the fiberglass tubes laminated directly to the hull? Sounds like a good system, provided there's enough chamfer at the joint.

Joe

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #18 on: August 03 2020, 20:33 »
Yes, the fibreglass tubes are laminated directly to the hull and cockpit bottom and this indeed looks very reliable.

Jam

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Re: Bavaria 38 ocean cc cockpit drains- no seacocks?
« Reply #19 on: August 04 2020, 23:09 »
Sent original thread and not been online for while so was surprised to see old thread revived. My Bavaria ocean is out the water this year so may be another job on the list.
Yngmar would be good to see the finished job.  It always worried me a bit every time I was in the engine compartment that there were no seacock plus was always careful not to lean on the pipes.
Cheers
John