Author Topic: We need to (Sea)Talk...  (Read 828 times)

MagicalArmchair

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We need to (Sea)Talk...
« on: December 05 2019, 18:08 »
I am trying to get my head around my Raymarine set up on Mirage. I've always had NMEA stuff on all my boats, so the 2001 Raymarine Seatalk stuff is all a bit of a mystery to me.

So, the set up is below:







All of the kit is original 2001 other than the e7 and the radar, both updated in 2009. As I understand, these will all be linked up in series, err, something like the below:



Questions:
  • Is it likely there is a Switch between the e7 and the rest of the SeaTalk network? As per the below?
  • The NMEA from the Autopilot system, is the likely to be what is feeding the SIMRAD VHF radio?
  • I want to connect a modern Raymarine AIS700 transceiver - where would be the logical place to attach this? Or should I move away from Raymarine and go for different kit?



I've based a lot of my assumptions based on the below diagram:


ref: http://productimageserver.com/literature/ownersManual/56162OM.pdf

dawntreader

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Re: We need to (Sea)Talk...
« Reply #1 on: December 05 2019, 19:12 »
I did this a couple of years ago and attach my logic diagram - it all worked in the end  ;)

Yngmar

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Re: We need to (Sea)Talk...
« Reply #2 on: December 05 2019, 20:00 »
the 2001 Raymarine Seatalk stuff is all a bit of a mystery to me.

Seatalk1 is delightfully easy. You connect everything together, feed power into the bus at one point and job done.

Quote
Questions:
  • Is it likely there is a Switch between the e7 and the rest of the SeaTalk network? As per the below?
  • The NMEA from the Autopilot system, is the likely to be what is feeding the SIMRAD VHF radio?
  • I want to connect a modern Raymarine AIS700 transceiver - where would be the logical place to attach this? Or should I move away from Raymarine and go for different kit?

  • Not likely there is a switch unless you have more than two devices connected together. Makes no sense to have one for just two (radar + one plotter).
  • Probably yes - to confirm, just follow the cable from the radio :)
  • There's probably a Seatalk1 to SeatalkNG (N2k) converter somewhere, as I think the e7 doesn't have a Seatalk1 connector. Which means you already have a small SeatalkNG/N2k bus, to which you can just add any N2k AIS transceiver (additional cables required and if you buy non-Raymarine, you will need SeatalkNG to N2k adapter cables, as they're still sticking with silly proprietary plugs). Or a NMEA0183 AIS transceiver on the NMEA0183 input on your e7 would also work. So you can pick whichever one you like best.

Sailing Songbird (Blog & YouTube)  ⛵️ Bavaria 40 Ocean (2001)

MagicalArmchair

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Re: We need to (Sea)Talk...
« Reply #3 on: December 06 2019, 10:19 »
Thank you both, that's very helpful indeed.

Quote
...feed power into the bus at one point and job done.

So with the power going into the course computer in the photo above, the instruments themselves will not be individually powered as they will be powered through the Seatalk daisy chain? I guess the e7 Seatalk NG may be getting a separate feed from somewhere? The following diagram was helpful to me also: http://www.raymarine.co.uk/uploadedFiles/Products/Networking/SeaTalk/SeaTalkng.pdf

If only the boat was more local, then I could go and fiddle! Delivery trip in a few months time...

Yngmar

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Re: We need to (Sea)Talk...
« Reply #4 on: December 06 2019, 15:12 »
Yes, the Seatalk1 bus is 3 wires, negative (black), +12V power (red) and data (yellow). Very simple and apart from being a bit low bandwidth (too low for AIS for example), the concept works really well to this day.

All the ST60 instruments are powered from that bus. Anything that draws a bit more power, like the chartplotter and course computer will have its own power cables. In case of your e7 plotter having a N2k bus, there will also be a separate supply to the N2k bus, usually at the converter.

Looking at diagrams is useful for learning how things can or should be wired, but to find out how things are wired on your boat, you will have to look at your wiring, as installations vary with every installer, may have been modified by previous owners or someone doing a quick fix at sea and then forgetting all about it.
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dawntreader

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Re: We need to (Sea)Talk...
« Reply #5 on: December 07 2019, 07:50 »
........Looking at diagrams is useful for learning how things can or should be wired, but to find out how things are wired on your boat, you will have to look at your wiring, as installations vary with every installer, may have been modified by previous owners or someone doing a quick fix at sea and then forgetting all about it.

Very good advice. The first thing I did before converting from the 'C' series to the 'A' series was to map the original installation so that I understood how that worked.

MagicalArmchair

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Re: We need to (Sea)Talk...
« Reply #6 on: December 07 2019, 21:05 »
Thank you all, only a few weeks and I will be back at the boat again, so I will have a full drains up and follow, map out and then document the wiring layout.

How easy is access to the wiring? Is the only access by swiveling Panel 424 out of the way and then inspecting the wiring through the hole that is left?

MagicalArmchair

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Re: We need to (Sea)Talk...
« Reply #7 on: December 30 2019, 12:54 »
Festive greetings all!

I visited the boat at the weekend and peered through the tiny hole that swiveling panel 424 out gave me. The inspection left me with the following questions (apologies in advance, there are quite a few!):
  • Are the switches on the panel switches or breakers? If the latter, how are they reset if tripped?
  • Is this switch below unused? I note there is a wire going off somewhere from the device side of the switch? (I ran out of time to trace it onboard)

Back



Front


  • I'm surprised that the Seatalk to Seatalk NG has the plotter connected to the blue port (I would have thought it would have been one of the white ports) - I thought that was the terminator and was only used to daisy chain these together. Is the below set up correct? It certainly works!

  • To connect up my new, shiny AIS700.
    • Should I piggy back off the plotter switch? I can't see a scenario where I would want the plotter on but not the AIS? Or should I use the spare so I can keep it turned off in port when programming in routes etc? I will put an inline fuse in the wire rated to the AIS700 manual.
    • The negative will go direct to the negative bus bar here.
    • The Seatalk NG cable will go to one of the white ports on the Seatalk to SeatalkNG converter here.
    • I will take your advice and remove the Glomax (the Raymarine dealer said he flipping hated those devices too), so the VHF set up becomes simple. VHF aerial to AIS transponder, AIS transponder to VHF radio.
  • What the dickens is the below switch for? Do other Bavs have this?  I did try following it back but ran out of time again.

  • What are the below, marked in red for please?





elias

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Re: We need to (Sea)Talk...
« Reply #8 on: December 30 2019, 14:59 »
Hi
I don’t know in English the exact meaning but is a a breaker , when current exceeds I think 10-15 amps it shuts off and you have to press it again to switch on ( after you fix the reason of the fault!)

In my boat 18 was free . If you follow the thick red wire it will end to a connecting point you call it unknown thingy on which you ll see to what device ( if there is any ) it is giving power to.

MagicalArmchair

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Re: We need to (Sea)Talk...
« Reply #9 on: December 30 2019, 16:40 »
Hi
I don’t know in English the exact meaning but is a a breaker , when current exceeds I think 10-15 amps it shuts off and you have to press it again to switch on ( after you fix the reason of the fault!)

In my boat 18 was free . If you follow the thick red wire it will end to a connecting point you call it unknown thingy on which you ll see to what device ( if there is any ) it is giving power to.

Ah ha! Okay, so that is Unknown Thingy 1! Gotcha. So that's now a known thingy. Thank you!

Does anyone have a lead (pun intended!) on the other red thingies? Or answers to the rest of my ramblings?

Yngmar

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Re: We need to (Sea)Talk...
« Reply #10 on: December 30 2019, 19:58 »
They're breakers. Like most breakers they pop to off and you switch them on again when they tripped.

Panel 424 Switch 18, 19 and 20 are normally "reserved" (meaning unused from factory), but that doesn't mean they haven't been used since (like your 19 and 20 seem to be). Follow the wire to be sure.

The Seatalk converter blue connectors are for the backbone. If there's something plugged into them that's fine, but the backbone must be terminated on both ends (one end is the other blue connector which has a terminator visible in it). No more, no less. The manual explains all of this quite clearly.

It's better to give the AIS a separate power switch. There can certainly be situations where you want to switch it separate from the plotter, e.g. when either one is misbehaving or you need to fiddle with the wires whilst underway (certainly has occurred here).

The extra switch on the panel looks like a custom addition. You get to follow those wires too. Used boats are full of treasure hunts like that! :)

Thingy 2 is the connector from the panel 424 switched positives to the boat circuits (i.e. cabin lights, power for radio, etc.)

Thingy 1 seems to be more of the same - we don't have that one, but you will probably find the numbers match with the numbers on the switch panel breakers. Probably slightly thicker wires, thus the separate connector block.

Thingy 4 I can't quite make out but it looks a lot like a blade fuse holder, in which case it may be for the windlass or a forced air diesel heater. Could be a relay too, hard to see. Have a better look at it and you'll soon know.

Thingy 3 is a RJ45 connector, most likely for Ethernet, which means most likely the Radar, unless perhaps there's a Wifi booster or some such around.
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MagicalArmchair

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Re: We need to (Sea)Talk...
« Reply #11 on: December 31 2019, 09:27 »
Thank you Yngmar. Its all starting to make some sense now. With the Seatalk NG stuff, I guess there must be a T piece or the like somewhere towards the plotter, which makes sense. In my photo of the converter I thought the cable looked blue striped (so the backbone) but considered it a trick of the flash on my camera, with the wire going to the plotter being white striped (spur).



That helps me as where I want to site the AIS700, the 1M spur wire I have would not reach the converter, but it will reach the back of the plotter where the T piece must be, so I will add another T piece and a spur cable to my shopping list.

That's all my questions answered, thank you all. What a cracking community here.

Happy new year all.