Author Topic: Vision 42 Generator  (Read 4466 times)

JJackson18b

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Vision 42 Generator
« on: October 04 2019, 21:18 »
Can someone tell me where Bavaria factory mounts the Generator on the Vision 42 model?  if you have pictures of the install area that would be great.  Cheers JJ
Jon J.  SV Ruck-Up

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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #1 on: October 07 2019, 11:00 »
I have a V46 and it might be the same.. The factory install was in the port aft cabin centre line cupboard over the engine. I had a small Fischer Panda 4.5kW as factory option there in my V46 2014 model. Sorry not at my boat at the moment so don't have pictures to hand.

However I would not recommend it. It is a tight space for a genset so you can only fit a smaller one (which proved inadequate for the task - see below) and it is noisy inside the cabin and main salon when running. It is relatively easy to access for routine service which is on the plus side.

The original genset was abused by charterers trying to run all three A/C units simultaneously and not shutting down properly with cooling down time without load and gave up after only 2 years of use.

I now have an Onan Cummins 7.2k/W set installed in the aft lazarette under the cockpit sole aft behind the rudder and steering mechanisms. It is a much better location. When running you can hardly hear it in the cockpit let alone when in the main salon. I went with the underwater cooling water return to eliminate the "splash-splash" coming out of the exhaust port too, which I would recommend. It is a little less easy to access for oil changes etc but I think worth the peace and quiet and extra power. 

I have seen 2 V46's as well as ours with this set up and it is now what the charter company/dealer in the BVI fit as "standard" as opposed to the factory OEM placement.

Hope it helps. 
Ian
SV Kibo, 2014 Bavaria Vision 46

JJackson18b

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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #2 on: October 08 2019, 00:41 »
Kibo, Thanks for the detailed information.  I was thinking of putting it in the aft lazaretto but wanted to make sure other had. When you say behind rudder and steering, i that going towards the bow?  I have a half high wall then the steering and rudder.    Was it a lot of work getting into the locker and what was the reason for changing to cummins?  I've been trying to figure out which brand was better or are they all about the same.

JJ
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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #3 on: October 08 2019, 09:08 »
No problem. No I meant aft of the steering gear. In fact it’s almost hard up against the transom about on the centre line of the boat.

I did not personally fit it but I know a little bit of glasswork was done to build a platform for mounting and the genset  had to be disassembled from the soundproofing case so it would fit through the hatch in the cockpit sole. The soundproofing case was then refitted in situ   I won’t be on the boat until December but I can take some photos then if you like.

As to choices of make and size. I investigated other forums, asked around the trade etc and it seemed to come down, as usual, to a lot of opinions with some data. The Fischer Panda make didn’t come high up the last. The two front runners for me were Onan/Cummins or Northern Lights. In the end choice was determined by reported reliability, weight/kW, price and availability - the guys who sold and installed it are Onan dealers and could get me the best installed pricing   The installation was done in Grenada where my boat is based and we liveaboard from December until mid April.

The genset is used mainly to help top up batteries which are mainly charged via solar panels and we sometimes like to use the microwave and Aircon at anchor !  So far it’s been two seasons of use and it’s great.

Not sure it’s a DIY job I would tackle simply because of the heavy lifting involved - it was installed when the boat was on the hard during the summer and they had to get a small crane to lift it into the boat.  I am sure wiring and other hookups could be a DIY part if you wanted to save some labour costs. I do a lot of my own jobs but some are simply too big and I’m not as flexible as I used to be in tight spaces !!

Let me know if I can help further.

Ian
SV Kibo, 2014 Bavaria Vision 46

JJackson18b

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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #4 on: October 09 2019, 15:17 »
Ian, first i want to thank you, I see your name on a lot of replies throughout this forum and you're always to helpful.   I am wondering how big of a difference of size between the 42 and 46.   Is it hard to get to the Autopilot area and the power circuit breakers mounted on the port bulkhead because of the position of the generator?  (I do call it the yoga locker).  I did see a diagram last night that shows the generator mounted on starboard side just aft of the helm.  I do realize it would not be centerline but just off of it.

JJ
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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #5 on: October 09 2019, 18:52 »
Thanks for your kind words Jon, I have been a Bavaria owner since 2005 with 3 different boats and am keen to help others if I can with the brand.

I'n not sure either about the difference in relative size of the lazarette area in the 46 v 42.... Maybe there are some dimension drawings out there but I haven't looked...

I agree with your description of the yoga locker! I can get to both of the autopilot controller and the circuit breakers by crawling around the forward side of the genset and indeed had to replace my autopilot motor just this February which involved a lot of swearing and sweating but was doable.  I would have to say that if the space was smaller in the fore and aft dimension it would be a very tight squeeze.

My genset is basically just off centre line as I mentioned so as you look down the access hatch facing forward the side of the genset is about in line with the opening so access to that is quite easy. It is about as far aft and tight to the inside of the transom as you could get.

Like I said I can get you photos and actual dimensions but not until December, if you are not in a rush.

Might be also worth asking someone like a dealer as to the interior dimensions of the 42 v 46.

This is the set I have so if you measure dimensions it might help too

https://www.cummins.com/generators/onan-marine-qd-6758-kw-generator.

Mine is the 110v / 7.5 but all of these are the same dimensions.

Hope it all helps further...

Ian
SV Kibo, 2014 Bavaria Vision 46

Porquerolles

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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #6 on: February 20 2020, 19:16 »
Bonjour,
Nous allons faire installer un générateur Fischer Panda 5000i neo sur notre Bavaria 42 Vision.
c'est apparemment le plus compact et le plus léger modèle disponible sur le marché.
Aviez-vous prévu sur le votre :
- une prise d'eau spécifique d'alimentation pour l'eau de refroidissement ? (différente de la prise d'eau du moteur)
- un passe coque spécifique pour l’évacuation de l'eau de refroidissement ?
Par ailleurs, on nous propose un échappement à sec (sans eau) , moins bruyant en principe que échappement mixte (eau + gaz échappement)
Disposez-vous de ce système ? Qu'en pensez-vous ?
Merci de vos réponses.
Cordialement.
Bernard

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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #7 on: February 20 2020, 21:38 »
Hi. My French is not so good but hopefully I answer your questions.

You need a separate cooling water system completely apart from the engine system.

You need a separate exhaust system too. Therefore new inlet through hull and new exhaust outlet

You can use the same diesel tank as your engine and add a water fuel separator just for the generator
 
Hope it helps.
Ian
SV Kibo, 2014 Bavaria Vision 46

Porquerolles

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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #8 on: February 21 2020, 11:42 »
Thank you very much for your message.
We will therefore have to make a new inlet for the cooling water and a new outlet for the exhaust.
The installer also offers us a "dry exhaust", in principle less noisy ..., it is only the gases that come out, not the cooling water.
There is therefore an additional outlet, below the waterline for the evacuation of the cooling water from the generator.
Do you have this system?
Thanks again for your information.

Kibo

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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #9 on: February 21 2020, 14:51 »
Hi. Yes I have the dry exhaust system.  Recommended since it is much more quiet
Ian
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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #10 on: February 25 2020, 15:28 »
Hello,
To "summarize", it is therefore necessary to have:
- a thru hull, under the waterline, for cooling the generator.
- a thu hull under the waterline, for the evacuation of water
- a through-hull fitting above the waterline, for the evacuation of exhaust gases
For diesel fuel supply, connect directly to the main tank by adding, for safety, a decanter filter.
Is this the "right" installation to plan?
Thank you for your reply....

Kibo

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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #11 on: February 25 2020, 15:52 »
You are exactly correct in your summary   Best of luck with your installation
Ian
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SofiaB

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Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #12 on: February 26 2020, 04:55 »
JJ,

We've communicated several times on various projects: Jefa vs Garmin rudder sensor, Selden top down furler and general upgrades to our Visions.

In 2017, I debated a gen-set and honed in on Westerbeke and Northern Lights in the 6KW range.  After the sticker shock of over $20K for the Westerbeke installed, I actually purchased a Honda 2200 and converted it to propane (tri-fuel) which cost around $1500.  I also changed the propane locker around to fit two tanks with an auto switchover when one tank went dry.  After all that I almost threw it overboard due to issues getting it on/off the boat and find a place to store it.  So, I started looking at a genset again.

Then, my Father asked why I would "simply" not add a generator motor to the perfectly good diesel I had on board.  After telling him everything I thought I knew about diesel generator from my extensive research, I started researching this concept and found a Mobile Power Systems (MEPS) genset, 6.5KW/7.5KW model.  The unit is used in emergency vehicles and on marine response vessels.  The system connects to the engine almost like a second, high capacity alternator except that it produces 230V/3PH power.  I found one on eBay used for 25% of the quoted price from MEPS thinking that I had a 25% chance of getting it to work.  I then went to work on designing the mounting for the generator motor on the engine, added a much larger pulley, determining a belt path, installing an auto transfer switch, rewiring shore power, mounting the controller box, adding a remote on switch (key switch) and mounting the power LED panel.  After two designs for the brackets, two different ad-on pulleys, four different belts, rewiring shore power twice, rotating the impeller and rerouting the raw water lines I started the motor and it instantly worked.  I new it worked with the auto transfer switch "clunked" over from shore power to the generator.

It produces 5.5KW at 900 RPM, 6KW at 1000RPM and 6.5KW at 1100RPM.  The generator uses 1HP per 1KW, so at 900RPM which produces approximately 9-10HP, I'm loading the engine with 6HP, so around 60% which is actually a decent load.  At 1800-2000RPM cruising speed, I engage the generator with the key switch, wired to the 12V panel, and feel and hear no difference with the engine whatsoever.  On my Vision 46, I have two 30 amp shore sources, one which runs the forward AC with the rest of the boat, and the other which runs the main saloon and aft cabin AC only.  Currently I have the genset switching the forward AC and the rest of the boat and I can run everything with no issues at 1000 RPM (hair dryer, shower, microwave, A/C, all lights, TV, stereo and more). I turned everything I had on, and did have to bump it from 900 RPM to 1000 RPM.  But, I will never turn everything on like that so 900 RPM has worked (except for the hair dryer).  Otherwise, idle runs the entire boat and charges the battery in half the time of the alternator. 

My main reasons for not wanting a diesel genset:  added weight, loss of storage, second engine (and maintenance), added complexity, added holes, extensive wiring, noisy pump, added exhaust and high cost.  The MEPS added 40 lbs (versus 500 lbs), no loss of storage, no second engine, no maintenance, minor complexity but if it fails, no impact on any other system, no added holes, no added pumps, no exhaust and less than half the cost even with the multiple redesigns.  The only downside is that if running the main engine more hours it will have more maintenance.  But, we actually ran it less since the MEPS powered the batteries much faster, in 45 minutes versus 1.5 to 2 hours per day at anchor with the 80amp alternator.  Plus, we cooled (or heated) the boat before turning off the engine and going to sleep.  I added some photos and on one of them you will see the new rudder sensor.

So far, we are pleased with the unit and I was able to add it myself except for having the crank pulley removed for the new 8.25" diameter add-on pulley added.  This is one of those project that if interested and wanted to do it, you should see it first.  I have the drawings for a Volvo Penta D2-55F and Vision 46, but you would have to see if it fits your V42.  It may be an exact fit. 

There was several risks of failure:  that it wouldn't physically fit, would not produce sufficient power at low RPMs and I simply could not get the belt aligned properly, but as soon as I aligned and tensioned the belt it worked with no issues.  After 150-200 hours of run time and 60-80 hours of actually power generation I've had zero issues. 

Sorry if I confiscated your threat, but I thought you and possibly others may be interested in this solution.

Stuart
Cheers,  Stuart  (Sofia)

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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #13 on: February 26 2020, 12:50 »
Very interesting Stuart   Nice solution

My only downside to this setup is that you have to listen to your engine running when you want the power to be on. With my genset installed in the lower aft locker and fully insulated I can hardly hear it with the aft cabin door closed   Even in the cockpit it’s simply a low hum

My installed cost for the Onan Cummins 7kW was around $10k
Ian
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SofiaB

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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #14 on: February 29 2020, 18:10 »
Ian,

Noise is the only downside.  At idle, the engine is nowhere near as loud as 1600 RPM which is how we previously charged the batteries.  When motor sailing, the engine is on anyway and we have shore power to run everything when the generator is engaged.  I've been considering adding additional sound proofing. 

Since we are used to running the motor every night anyway we don't notice.  But, it runs half the time since charging is much faster.    If I could reduce the noise it would be a perfect solution for us, but nothings perfect, right?

Stuart
Cheers,  Stuart  (Sofia)

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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #15 on: March 03 2020, 21:39 »
Hi Stuart. Sounds good !😂. As you say nothing’s perfect. I do like your solution though. 
Ian
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Porquerolles

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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #16 on: March 05 2020, 14:55 »
Bonjour,
Nous nous sommes décidés...et nous allons faire installer le Fischer Panda 5000i néo sur notre 42 Vision.
Le coût est d'environ 12 500€, soit un peu moins de 14000 $ (cf. détail joint),
mais "quand on aime, on ne compte pas"...
Je vous ferai un premier "bilan" à la fin de la saison.
Cordialement.

Porquerolles

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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #17 on: April 12 2020, 18:59 »
Bonjour Ian,

Du fait du Coronavirus.... les travaux d'installation du générateur n'ont pas encore pu commencer.

Je joins une photographie de la soute arrière du bateau.

Pourriez-vous m'indiquer à quel endroit précis vous avez installé le votre ?

Je vous en remercie par avance.

Bien cordialement

Bernard

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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #18 on: April 13 2020, 02:01 »
Bonjour Bernard

My Genset is located as shown in the attached photo.....

It is as far aft as possible and in the middle of the boat. I had to change some of the interior to fit.

Best of luck with the virus crazy situation !



Ian
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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #19 on: April 13 2020, 09:40 »
Bonjour Ian,
Merci beaucoup de votre message.
votre générateur est donc sur le côté bâbord, c'est effectivement le côté qui dispose du plus grand volume disponible.
Nous pensions initialement l'installer coté tribord du fait de la proximité avec le réservoir de gas-oil, mais le volume disponible est beaucoup plus réduit. Je vous enverrai des photos, dès que le coronavirus aura été "vaincu" et que le générateur pourra donc être installé !
Bien Cordialement.
Bernard

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Re: Vision 42 Generator
« Reply #20 on: April 13 2020, 18:02 »
Bernard

De rein. Bonne chance.
Ian
SV Kibo, 2014 Bavaria Vision 46