Author Topic: Rudder Bearings  (Read 32838 times)

JVS

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Rudder Bearings
« on: August 24 2011, 16:50 »
I'm looking for a source for rudder bearings for my 2003 Bavaria 44.  I would also like to know the original dimensions.  I would prefer Vesconite as the bearing material.

Any help would be appreciated!
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Nigel

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #1 on: August 25 2011, 18:09 »
I'm looking for a source for rudder bearings for my 2003 Bavaria 44...
I bought mine from Bavaria, contact Leszek Kleczka Tel.: +49 9334 942 1930 Fax: +49 9334 942 1530

To give you an idea of price, for a 2000 Bavaria 47 the parts are as follows (August 2010 prices, all plus VAT):

Lower rudder bearing Art.:  315238 price 380 ?
Lower rudder bushing Art.:  304106 price 165 ?
Upper rudder bearing Art.:  315206 price 159 ?
Upper rudder bushing Art.:  304105 price  60 ?

You need to quote your HIN when ordering.

Nigel
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JVS

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #2 on: August 25 2011, 20:17 »
Thankyou very much for your help..  I was able to locate a supplier of "Vesconite" and ordered the bearings from them @ "XPC Bearings"  not only the material I was looking for, but at a considerable savings.  The lower bearing was $159.30 and the upper $67.50, which works to 110 euros and 47 euros respectively.

Vesconite seems to be the material of choice in the industry, because of it's durability and it doesn't swell over time while submerged in water.  I'm not sure what Bavaria's bearings are made of, but they swell and seize up after 5 to 8 years.  I don't want to go through this again..
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Nigel

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #3 on: August 25 2011, 22:39 »
swell and seize up after 5 to 8 years...
Swelling I could cope with, it's when they go slack there is a problem.
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JVS

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #4 on: August 27 2011, 00:34 »
When they swell, you can't steer the boat and it also stresses other parts of the steering mechanism!
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Kerenza

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #5 on: September 23 2011, 11:34 »
On my 35, when out of the water, there is noticeable but not excessive movement at the lower bearing when the rudder is moved by hand from side to side, and none at the top. When in the water and the rudder is forced up by buoyancy there is considerable float of the emergency connector within it's circle of movement. Although nothing is felt while sailing, it's all beautifully smooth, I guess my top bearing needs attention? How much can be done from the top with the rudder in place?

JVS

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #6 on: September 25 2011, 23:10 »
There's not much you can do with the rudder in place and by all means, don't attempt to service the upper bearing while in the water..  Once you remove the top nut the only thing keeping the rudder from dropping off is the quadrant.

It doesn't sound like you have a problem.  I couldn't force my rudder to turn withthe emergency tiller

My rudder also had a crack in it at the top and it was full of water.

I'm still waiting for my new bearings and trying to find a new upper rudder post seal..
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Ricd

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #7 on: October 06 2011, 09:33 »
On my 35, when out of the water, there is noticeable but not excessive movement at the lower bearing when the rudder is moved by hand from side to side, and none at the top. When in the water and the rudder is forced up by buoyancy there is considerable float of the emergency connector within it's circle of movement. Although nothing is felt while sailing, it's all beautifully smooth, I guess my top bearing needs attention? How much can be done from the top with the rudder in place?

I have a 34 with some sideways movement (say 5mm).  Assumed it was bearing wear and planning to replace bearings during winter.  I also suspected that adjustment of the top bearing might sort the play out as I was told the pipe the shaft goes into tappers and that taking up the slack on top removes play at bottom?  (note no apparent top bearing slackness...do sometimes feel some vibration from rudder as put on way under engine...is that normal?)

stardust

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #8 on: October 07 2011, 16:21 »
The steering on my 10 year old Bav38 is considerably stiffer this year than last year. Would this be an indication of impending  bearing failure? I have disconnected the autopilot and ruled out transmission from the wheel to the quadrant by disconnecting the cables. 

JVS

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #9 on: October 13 2011, 19:43 »
The bearings won't necessarily fail, what happens is they swell and seize making it hard to turn and subsequently puts more stress on your steering mechanism. Mine is chain, like on a bicycle, smaller boats are cable.  Mine became so bad that I'm sure I stretched the chain.  It was almost impossible to turn with the emergency tiller..    I'm sure Bavaria is aware of this problem and might even read this forum, I would like it if they would chime in on this subject!
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Monique

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #10 on: October 18 2011, 18:14 »
Interestingly enough, my rudder nearly seized when the boat was out of the water.  A "surveyor" mate told me it is frequent as the salt dries in the lower bearing when out of the water.

Loosened up after 12 hours in the water... still kept in the straps as I wondered what was happening...

Keep us posted, my older 46 "Exclusive" will need rudder bearings/bushes eventually

skipper

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #11 on: November 04 2011, 09:32 »
Rudder bearings can be obtained from:-

Seaway Group,       info@seawaygroup.eu

The bearings are "as original", so presumably Seaway Group supplied Bavaria yachts.

The quote for a complete set for my boat was euros 406.80 including transport.

Skipper.

RUMBA

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #12 on: November 28 2011, 02:00 »
Thankyou very much for your help..  I was able to locate a supplier of "Vesconite" and ordered the bearings from them @ "XPC Bearings"  not only the material I was looking for, but at a considerable savings.  The lower bearing was $159.30 and the upper $67.50, which works to 110 euros and 47 euros respectively.

Vesconite seems to be the material of choice in the industry, because of it's durability and it doesn't swell over time while submerged in water.  I'm not sure what Bavaria's bearings are made of, but they swell and seize up after 5 to 8 years.  I don't want to go through this again..
Hi JVS, did you get your bearings from xpc bearings stateside, would LOVE to get the contact from you I have a 42' Bavaria in Greece at present and would like to replace them when I return next year. Any contact person there would be helpful as I know that both our boats have the same sized top and owed bearings. Thanks RUMBA

PETER KRAAN

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #13 on: December 07 2011, 13:57 »
HELLO  ,    I  have  a  Bav 44 , 2002 .   did  you  have any luck  finding  the right  material  for  the  top bearing  .

 if  I m  correct it is only  the   " teflon " ring  that needs replacing  and the  rubber O ring  .  do have any advice !?

  regards  , Peter

Nigel

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #14 on: December 08 2011, 13:09 »
did you have any luck finding the right material for the top bearing... if I m correct it is only the " teflon " ring  that needs replacing and the rubber O ring...

Perhaps your bearings are different, but on a B47 they look like a cored apple and an aluminum cage. The picture below is the top bearing, the lower is similar (the rings in the picture are spacers).

I think they are made of "Acetal" or POM.
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peter gibbs

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #15 on: December 08 2011, 22:43 »
I'm looking for a source for rudder bearings for my 2003 Bavaria 44.  I would also like to know the original dimensions.  I would prefer Vesconite as the bearing material.

Any help would be appreciated!

My 1998 Ocean 38's lower bush swelled and was a problem by season 4, so I dropped the rudder and replaced the bearing with what Bavaria told me was one made of superior material. Guess what - that one swelled up too and I had to drop the rudder again to ream out the core.

For me this costs little but for those who have to pay heavily for lifting and yard work to replace the lower bush it must pay to get new bearings (I have not heard that top bearings are affected this way - certainly not in my case) Whether Bavaria have taken the trouble now to source with more suitable material - who knows?

PWG

PETER KRAAN

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #16 on: December 09 2011, 14:00 »
Thanks  for  the picture , it  is  the  same  as  mine .

 I think   that in my case  the   'flat ' ring  needs  to be replaced ,  it  has   some wear . and  that's why I suspect  the   ' heavy rudder '  ,  finding  the right materlial  ( here in Greece ) is maybe more difficult  .

 thanks again

Nigel

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #17 on: December 09 2011, 15:44 »
the 'flat' ring needs to be replaced, it has some wear

One of mine was worn down to 1mm on one side, and still 3mm on the other; the shaft was not perpendicular to the aluminum boss. I had a tapered spacer made to go under the boss.

These spacers are a stock item from Bavaria, and not terribly expensive. However, any workshop should be able to make them, we had new ones made in Greece for a few ? each.
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PETER KRAAN

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #18 on: December 22 2011, 11:05 »
  Thanks   for  the advice  , we will continue in januari  ,

to all   of  you  , Joyful Xmas days , seayou next year

TRUNDLETRUC

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #19 on: December 23 2011, 15:30 »
Shortly after buying our Bav36 the rudder went very tight. We managed to get the cost of new bearings and installation from the seller. But guess what? Within 2 months the rudder was showing signs of tightness! After checking everything on the wheel, quadrant etc. as a last resort I put some Olive Oil down the lower bearing tube and within a day's sailing the rudder loosened up and with an annual drop of olive oil has been okay since.

I used olive oil because it was to hand in the galley and I felt it might not have any detremental effect on the bearing material or rudder stock.

If the rudder is stiff save yourself alot of money by trying it!



stardust

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #20 on: December 27 2011, 19:41 »
how did you manage to get oil to the rudder bearing ?. was the boat in the water.Id like to give it a try
Stardust

peter gibbs

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #21 on: January 11 2012, 23:23 »
how did you manage to get oil to the rudder bearing ?. was the boat in the water.Id like to give it a try
Stardust

Completely no effect, in my experience.

PWG

TRUNDLETRUC

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #22 on: January 14 2012, 12:55 »
Oiling lower rudder bearing on Bav36 (2002)

In repy to Stardust. You can get to the lower rudder bearing by going into the back cabin and removing the rear panel (toggles). I think the space at the back is called the Lazarrete? You will then see the aluminium bearing holder bonded into the bottom of the boat.
Fastened to the top of the holder, which is tubular, is a rubber tube attached with a jubilee clip. Remove the jubilee clip and lift the rubber tube up the rudder stock and put the oil down between the rudder stock and the tubular bearing holder. A couple of teaspoons full.
Refit the rubber tube.
Takes a bit of time for it to work through,

Hope this helps.

Ianb

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #23 on: January 15 2012, 15:36 »
Our 2006 39 cruiser suffered lower rudder bearing seizure after being in the yard for annual work.

Was totally free before this. 2 weeks after being back in the water, almost total seizure. Maximimum force using emergency tiller could not shift.

I contacted http://www.clippermarine.co.uk/ on the south coast (uk), common problem and apparently my fault due to lack of maintenance. Hmm!!

I bit the bullet and purchased their new lower needle roller bearing. Also purchased a standard replacement for the upper bearing.

All plastic of some type but with large plastic vertical rollers in it. I'd be surprised if this will seize.

Dropping the rudder being the hard part. Had to machine up an attachment for the top of the rudder shaft. Literally hammer the shaft down, mm by mm. Several hours later, the shaft was out.

The old bearing still in the housing had to very carefully drilled to reduce pressure until it could be turned and removed.

Refitting the new bearings was the easy part.

One would think that in this day and age, a bearing of suitable material and non hydroscopic could be fitted form the start.

The rudder can still be turned with my little finger to this day.


Monique

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Re: Rudder Bearings
« Reply #24 on: January 30 2012, 21:26 »
Well... after encountering some rudder problems, I ordered a replacement from XPC Bearings in the US.  Eric is easy to deal with and very fair.

F U Bavaria .... I wish they were on our planet instead of .... wherever they are... :sick :sick